INDUSTRIAL GAY LOVES

Dear Project,

I start from the beginning, I’m almost 27, I always knew I was gay and it was natural for me, never a problem and never a doubt. I had absolutely no problems with it, but the others had them and I could only pay the consequences. I have never been good at school and I have always had a lot of problems for this, but perhaps this also helped me a lot, focusing my parents’ attention on school problems more than on the fact that I had no girls around. After my high school diploma, I attended a very specialized semester course and there I did pretty well, even better than the other guys. At the end of the course they called me for an interview in a large Company, and against all my expectations they hired me. My parents didn’t see my new job favorably, because I would have had to go out of my region to move to a very distant place and the wages were low and my father would have had to pay for my accommodation near the Company. Anyway, then my father ended up saying yes and I left.

 

I had turned 22 a few months before and I finally felt free, but I was also very scared, I did a six-month internship in the Company and then they confirmed my permanent employment. The real salary was better than what I had supposed and furthermore I had no expenses, because from Monday to Saturday, for lunch, I ate at the Company canteen, but since the industrial production was continuous, there was also a canteen for dinner, and also in the morning for breakfast, but for dinner and breakfast I had to pay, but the costs were very low and the food was good and plentiful. In short, after three months, I told my father that I was able by myself to pay for my accommodation and that he would no longer have to sign for me the monthly money transfer, and he felt very relieved because my parents aren’t rich at all.

 

I started to look for a rented house, even a very little but a house that had to be exclusively mine, I found one not very close to the Company, more or less a kilometer and a half, 35 minutes on foot walking briskly, but it was a single house with a small piece of vegetable garden, no more than 400 m2. As soon as I could, even losing some money, I left the room I had rented and moved to my new house. I had discovered that in the Company it was possible to be available to work overtime, I had no family load and with overtime I was able not only to pay for the house but also to put some money aside and do some extra shopping (a camera, and with some effort a new PC).

 

I felt like a king, but I was alone. Obviously in the Company I had started looking around, like all gay guys do, looking for others like me, but frankly they were all much older than me, all or almost married with children. In the department where I worked, the youngest one after me was 36 years old, he was bald and had a belly that came out of his belt and moreover he was probably straight. In the department we used to work hard and had no time to waste, I tried to do my best. I saw that the supervisors sometimes scolded some of the employees who had done their job wrong, but they never scolded me.

 

One day, unexpectedly, the shift supervisor comes to me and tells me that I know how to do my job and that I do it well. I feel very encouraged. In the sector entrusted to me I had noticed that one of the machines that I knew best was not set up in the best way and that there were operations that, with those settings, required much more time and much more human control. It occurs to me that there may be a solution, I say this to the shift supervisor who, however, does not take me too seriously and only tells me that he will talk of it to the engineer responsible for automation. I think he told me so just to say something and from this I deduce that the story is over.

 

Two days later the shift supervisor comes to me and tells me that Engineer Bordin (modified name) wants to talk to me at the end of the shift. I feel very gratified, at the end of the shift I wash my hands and also my face well and go to the Administration Department. The environment is luxurious but without exaggerating, I find the Engineer’s office, the secretary, a lady of about 55, tells me that the Engineer will arrive in minutes and lets me in the room to seat. I feel intimidated, there is a computer turned on with drawings of production lines and folders of papers everywhere. After not more than five minutes the Engineer arrives and here I have a heart attack, I was expecting an elderly man and instead he is a beautiful guy who in my opinion is not even thirty years old, he smiles at me immediately, we shake hands, he has a nice warm and strong hand, and then he tells me that the shift supervisor told him that the setting of an industrial machine could be changed and that I had proposed the change, and he asks me what it is. I try to explain it to him, but it is clear that these are things he doesn’t understand at all.

 

At one point he asks me: “Are you sure of what you say?” I tell him that I think I’m quite sure of it but that I should do a test, that is, I should reset the machine in the new way and see what happens by letting the machine perform automatically the same work it does now, just to confirm that it is able to do everything automatically. He asks me how long the test could take, I tell him: “At most 10-15 minutes”, he tells me to do the test and to let him know if it works. If the shift supervisor has doubts or problems I have to tell him that I have been authorized by engineer responsible for automation. He adds that I have to send him a report on the outcome of the test as soon as possible, then he smiles at me, we shake newly hands and we say goodbye.

 

I rush to the shift supervisor who opens his arms and says to me: “Okay, but we must stop production line for the shortest time possible.” We agree that I would have done the test between 3.00 and 3.30 in the night, when the system is operating at a lower speed, just to minimize the effects caused by the interruption of the production line. I go home, I study all the technical manuals, I write the reset program, reread the programs dozens of times, then I mount the simulator on my PC and proceed to start the standard execution of the piece. It seems that everything works perfectly. I load the program on the pen and start writing the report for the Engineer, assuming that everything will work as expected even on the real machine. At half past one in the morning I leave my house and go to the Company. I send the production stop signal for 15 minutes, “due to maintenance” at 3.05 o’clock. I load the reset program, insert a piece to be worked and at 3.09.10 a perfect piece leaves the machine, even better by eye than what was obtained with the old procedure.

 

I leave the machine with my settings and at 3.12.00 I restart the production cycle. I take a piece made with the old technique and the one made with the new one on which I put a drop of red paint. Then I come home, complete the relationship. In practice with the new settings the time was reduced from 7 minutes and 10 seconds to 4 minutes and 10 seconds and there was no sign of work discontinuity on the piece. I go home exhausted but happy. The shift starts at 7.00 am. I go to the shift supervisor, tell him that I did the test and that it went well, he replies that he has seen a some acceleration of the line and tells me that I have done a good job. I ask him if I can go to the Engineer, he says yes and I go.

 

The Engineer is not there but the secretary calls him on his cell phone and tells me to sit down and wait. He arrives after a few seconds, smiles at me, tells me that he is happy to see me and informs me that the shift supervisor has detected a line acceleration of almost 7%. I give him the report, he reads it or better he just looks at it, then he offers me a coffee. I’m afraid he asks me something about school, but he doesn’t, we have coffee together, then we talk a little, he asks me how long I’ve been in the Company, where I live, where I worked before, how I find myself with my work colleagues, I dare to turn the same questions to him and he answers me in a very friendly tone, he trusts me, he tells me that he is 29 years old, that he has been in the Company for three years but is very stressed from work, he doesn’t mention wife or children or girlfriends, maybe those are too personal matters, then he asks me for my cell phone number, writes it on my technical report and puts it in the drawer. Then he tells me that he is sorry to have to send me back to the ward because he sees that I’m a very good guy and he dismisses me with a stronger and warmer handshake than usual and that lasts a few moments longer than expected. I go back to my department and feel very excited.

 

The shift supervisor calls me and asks me if I know also another automatic control machine, he explains that there are problems that have never been solved, and he tells me that, when I have time, I could also take a look to that machine. I tell him it’s okay.

 

Project, I don’t go further in telling the details, in no more two months all the automatic control machines have been reset and reprogrammed to optimize the production, the times have been reduced by almost 20% and the production standard has improved. Since I’m very young, compared to their standards, my colleagues don’t look at me with envy and the supervisors encourage me a lot. I have been to the Engineer four times in a month and a very particular mutual sympathy has been created, there is only a problem, he is a manager and there is a lot of hierarchy in the company and the rules must be respected.

 

To make the English language speakers understand exactly what follows, I must first explain to them that in Italian, when speaking formally with a person you don’t know and with whom you are not familiar, we don’t use the second person of the singular, but the third person of the singular “feminine” also in reference to a man. For example, to a friend you say “today you came to visit me” (that is, you use “you”) but in reference to an important person or to a person you don’t know, you have to use an expression that in English would sound more or less like this: “She came to see me today” (i.e. you use “she”)

 

Well, however, one evening, after a little more than two months from our first meeting, he calls me on the phone using “she” (formal speaking), I think it is for issues related to the machines, but it is not so, he talks about other things, about the life that does not satisfy, about the work that disillusiones and makes you feel stressed, about the time that passes, I think at every moment that when the preambles will be over he will start talking to me about work but it doesn’t happen. We are on the phone for over an hour, then he asks me: “Can we use the “you””? … But only outside the Company, otherwise it could sound strange.” It’s a request that makes many lights light up in my brain! I reply that it’s fine, he tells me his name is Stefano and I tell him my name is Dario. He says to me: “Thanks, Dario, it was really a pleasure to talk to you tonight, you have my cell number, if you call me it’s nice, don’t forget it!” He says these things in a very hesitant voice and this makes me very tender. I tell him. “Thanks, Stefano, I’ll show up shortly, you can count on it!”

 

When I close the phone, my eyes shine, it is clear that Stefano is gay and that between us there is already a special sympathy and furthermore he is a beautiful guy, he doesn’t put me in embarrassment at all,  it’s he the one who feels embarrassed with me.

 

He knew my work shifts and I knew his, and we never met within the Company, because it could be embarrassing for both of us, but after another month, we got to the point that we talked on the phone every day and met one day a week, when we were both free. I used to take the bus and go to the second village on the way to the mountain and I had to wait for him just minutes, he usually arrived there by car non more than 10 minutes after me, he parked and we went around the woods, then in the evening he used to take me back home by car. It was precisely in one of these walks that we got to speak clearly, it was all much easier than I had imagined. I said to him: “Well, I think it is up to me to start the topic … I’m gay and I think I’m falling in love with you …” He looks at me and smiles with a huge smile, then says to me: “I understood it the second time we met!”

 

Project, don’t think that what came next was easy and trouble-free, because it was exactly the opposite. He had a lot of problems about the fact that he was 29 years old and I wasn’t 23 yet, but he didn’t show his 29 years at all, maybe my age if not even less. For my part, I had a many problems because he was an engineer and was already a manager in the Company and I acted accordingly with it, but he did not feed my problems, he didn’t at all seem to feel superior, rather, he was very shy and self-conscious. He only used to see the difference in age, which anyhow was nothing excessive, and felt guilty, as if he could rob me of my youth, that is, almost as if he could take advantage of me because I’m younger.

 

One day I asked him how much he was earning and he showed me the credit e-mail of his salary. He was earning a lot more than me but not so much more than me. He could not do overtime because his contract did not include office hours but his job was subject only to the evaluation of the C.E.O., well, with his job he earned 60% more than what I could earn by doing all the possible overtime, but even if he didn’t have office hours, anyhow he used to stay at Office in the Company for 12-16 hours a day, much more than me! And then he was always stressed by work, by worries and by the fact that the top manager always kept him under pressure.

 

One day we go to the usual country and since the following day is a national holiday we decide to stay there in the hotel, he has been anxious since the morning, he confesses to me that he never had sex with anyone and that he has a “fucking” (a word, that I’d never expected by him!) fear of diseases. I tell him that he does very well to be afraid of diseases and that I too have never been with anyone. He makes me swear. In the evening we go to a “widespread” hotel, that is, in practice they send us to a small separate but perfectly equipped cabin. Stefano is very anxious.

 

We stretched out on the bed fully dressed but it was cold and we turned on the heating. Basically we only talked all night. I thought he had, I don’t say female friends but at least male friends and instead he didn’t have any, he didn’t use to see anyone outside the Company, except me. The parents did not know about his homosexuality and until 29 years he had thought “only” to study and work.

 

When I talked about sex based on what I had learned from Gay Project, he was listening to me with extreme interest. He confessed to me his sexual fantasies: mutual masturbation, “also” oral sex, but no anal penetration, which never had existed in his fantasies and he was worried about this fact because he thought anal penetration was the fixed idea of all gay people. I looked at him in the eyes and told him that I too had never thought of having anal sex, that I had nothing against the thing in itself because people must be able to do what they want. Stefano still had the conception of sex as a forbidden game, the idea that sex was a form of love seemed strange to him, too irreverent compared to his principles.

 

Project, you have been very useful to me, I told him many things you wrote in the Manual and he was more and more perplexed. We slept only from 5.00 until 9.00, because before 9.30 we had to have breakfast in a bar in the village. We walked in the woods for hours and occasionally there was some physical contact, that is, we held hands. He totally left me the initiative but I was afraid to take some false steps, to put him in difficulty. At one point I ask him, “Can I hug you?” He replies with his eyes while smiling and I embrace him. He was shaking, he was really in ecstasy and I was too. I felt the body of a guy who liked to let me embrace him and was happy to be embraced by me, I felt his heart beat very fast, like mine, I felt his breath on my cheek and felt that he was holding me very tightly, we stayed embraced like this for very long minutes, then we broke up, but we didn’t kiss, I wanted him to take the initiative but he didn’t.

 

When we got home he asked me to show him my house, I was reluctant because everything was messy, but he insisted and then I said yes. He came in and this time he surprised me, he threw himself on my bed and said to me: “What if I sleep with you tonight?” I told him that there was only one bed and he pointed out to me that there was a reclining armchair and he would sleep there, but he needed to stay with me. We prepared a very quick dinner and then the effort of the last two days began to make itself felt: he settled on my bed, obviously fully dressed and I on the reclining armchair, even that time there was no sex at any level because we fell asleep almost immediately.

 

Now Stefano and I have been together for three years, we formally live as singles for work reasons, that is, to keep our relationship completely outside the work environment, but we stay in contact by the phone every day and every week we spend an evening together, then the night, all the next day and also the next night, then the work week starts again, but we manage to spend two nights together every week and I see him happy, now his problems about the fact that he is older than me are completely vanished. It took us more than a year to have the first sexual contacts but then it happened, it was much less simple than I had imagined, but in the end there was an excellent harmony between us also at that level.

 

Unfortunately there is one thing that doesn’t make me feel comfortable and it is the stress that Stefano is subjected to, because he is literally obsessed with work. It is true that he earns more, but in my opinion the game is not worth the candle, if he changed his job he would earn less but he would be much better and we would have more time for us. I have in mind that, if he could, he would change job even at the cost of losing out economically, but at the moment the only alternative would be to be a freelancer, it could be also a concrete possibility, but it is risky and would still keep him constantly anxious.

 

At school I had teachers who were engineers who did little or nothing at all, they earned little but literally did nothing at all! Now I have to try to understand how Stefano could be a teacher, I think it’s a bit complicated, but I have to understand if there is a road and which one, then I will have to try to tell him about it, because according to my opinion he wants to feel encouraged by me to take a step like that, because his parents would certainly tell him it’s madness.

 

My story ends here, or rather begins here!

I embrace you, Project, even if we don’t know each other, and I thank you for all the support you have indirectly given me.

 

Dario

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If you want, you can participate in the discussion on this post open on the Gay Project Forum: 

http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-industrial-gay-loves

FROM PERPLEXED HETERO TO HAPPY GAY

Hello Project,
From some months now I follow Gay Project that is practically unique throughout the network and allowed me to understand many things and gave a serious answer to many questions.

My name is Max, I am 29 years old, luckily for me I have a good job, which is a rarity these days, and I live on my own in a small town in the northern Italy. To accept my being gay it took me so long, I had two girlfriends, the first story was a thing of little weight, but the second was important. I needed a rest, I felt alone, I was 26 years old when it started.

I was used to let myself go with this girl, at least a little, then I realized the reason but I didn’t realize at that time. I had sex with her, but in a very strange way, I never took the initiative, such things didn’t event come into my mind, she had to do everything, I abandoned myself just passively and she brought me to orgasm as well. The first few times, that’s what I understood later, it seemed important to me to have an erection with a girl because this drove away the fear of being gay. When I reached orgasm I fell a sense of disappointment, as if it were something completely stupid and in fact for me it was just a physical reaction. She was used to give great importance to the fact that I had reached orgasm, she felt really proud of that.

Only a very few times I’ve been to stimulate her, but she had to basically teach me everything because I had no idea of how a woman could get excited. I think that in general a 26 year old guy knows very well what to do to a woman but I did not know. She wanted me to try penetration but I never did, a little out of fear that she became pregnant and a bit because for me it was not a spontaneous thing. So, according to her, things were going very well and I was just a little clumsy but I knew that it was not the case and that I was forced, as you say, I was “doing an experiment” on myself to see if I could eventually adapt to living with a woman.

The fact of having sex with her, however, gave me the feeling of not being gay and things went on like this, and here comes my discovery of your blog, in fact I had then also another sex life, I masturbated but always just watching gay videos or making fantasies about guys I met at the gym. Frankly these things, then, hadn’t any great significance for me, I said to myself that it was to make comparisons just like, I think, all the straight guys do and then, after all, it didn’t even happen so often.

I never made fantasies about girls but then it seemed to me obvious and almost meritorious because I had a girlfriend who had sex with me. With my girlfriend I had a very special relationship because her parents didn’t even know that we were somehow in love, or at least I had not ever wanted them to know because, I think, subconsciously I was afraid of getting bound, instead friends knew, both her and mine and, after all, that my friends knew it, for me, was an important thing. I had told her about a lot of strange things, about why I didn’t want to marry her and didn’t even want to have children, all these things seemed absurd to her and she was quite sure that she could change my mind.

Sometimes I thought that she considered me as a person of very little importance and that she was only interested in me to involve me into her life in order to complete her project of life, however, I can say that sex between us had become a habit, we were together also to have sex and I liked it, or at least tolerated it, but then when it was over I forgot the whole thing and did not think about until the next time and basically I didn’t want it really. I remember that when we were together she was totally focused on sex on the contrary I was thinking about something else and I was wondering why I was having sex with her.

We weren’t used to talk about us, but always and only about her projects that in fact did not concern us as couple but our being a couple in the eyes of other people, we were talking about going here or there, doing this or that, nothing more. I was surprised that nevertheless she felt in love with me but I think she really felt.

A couple of years ago I happened by chance on Gay Project and I began to read. The more I read, the more I opened my eyes. At one point I said: but then I’m really gay! I was used to think that the fact that I had never done those things that are said to be typical of gay guys was a clear evidence that I was not gay, and in addition I had sex with a girl. Then by reading more and more your blog, this reasoning was beginning to seem absurd, I began to think to the fact that sexual fantasies are a serious matter and slowly, I can say, I started living that things with more awareness, but at most I could consider myself bisexual, that was the idea I had formed of me, but then that idea has been shattered, but I didn’t like the idea of being gay.

The forum helped me a lot, but now sex with my girlfriend had become a habit and frankly I thought it would be still better to have sex with a guy whom I fantasized about but I thought it was absolutely impossible for me as a concrete experience. Let’s say that I had reached a balance, a compromise, certainly unstable but reassuring.

Then three months ago things have changed, I met by accident a guy 21 y. o.. He came where I work and had some work problems to be solved, things were rather complicated and he asked me if I could help him. The way he asked me and his appearance made me come to a heart attack. I was enchanted. I had other work to do but I invited him to sit down and I closed the door. He began to tell me about various problems and I tried to find the best solution concentrating at most. Not all problems could be solved immediately, for some things we needed our attention and time.

We met again in the following days. We were experiencing more and more a wonderful climate. I went to work just to see that guy. I asked myself a lot of questions and he did the same thing. Slowly the atmosphere became very pleasant, he called at home to get information and always we ended up chatting about things that with the work had nothing to do. Both were trying to prolong the conversation as much as possible. It took a little to start a conversation less formal and more friendly, then came the first pizza together and the first evening spent talking in the car, then he asked me how I figured out and accepted it, I told him that everything happened without any problem, all came very natural, and he told me about himself and even that he had spent long nights to read blog posts of Project.

The day when we told each other everything was beautiful, I think it was something absolutely unique and I felt very happy. When I looked into his eyes and I saw his smile I was the happiest man in the world, I wanted to hug him but I did not have the courage neither had he, I was afraid that even the slightest physical contact could break the spell. We met for almost three months, and then he told me that it was his first time and he wanted to make love with me, I told him all my fears, insisting that I had a girlfriend although frankly I wanted to be with him only. With him, I could also talk about my sexual fantasies.

Sometimes it seemed impossible that a guy like him could be in love with me, but things were just so. I felt a sexual attraction to him but also a strong total tenderness, I loved him just as a person, he made me feel loved, made me feel that he loved me, trusted me completely, we were happy together and we are still. Project, what you write about gay affectivity is absolutely true. Recently, I spent two days with him and I do not think I could do without it.

It is two weeks that I no longer see my girlfriend, I could not tell her anything and in the end I’m sorry but I do not think she would understand. When we had the opportunity to talk about gay people she replied as one who takes no offense but with “them” just doesn’t want to have anything to do.

I believe that I have never been so happy as today. It is not a matter of sex, it’s that I feel just totally in love with this guy. In everything he does and says there never was a discordant note and such a guy is in love with me! Guys, before meeting him, I was convinced that my life would have been to have sex with a woman without any real involvement and act like I was in love with her, I thought I’d never have a boyfriend, I took it for granted, and then at age 29 the possibilities decrease, but no! As you say, Project, when you meet the right guy, life changes. And I love my boyfriend totally, I like him in every way, just as a person because he’s truly a good person, a honest guy who wants to love and be loved. I want to tell everyone, do not put in your head that love does not exist and you will not find it because when you least are waiting for him, a guy looks into your eyes and your life changes! A hug to everyone! And one very special to Project (now I really understand the deep meaning of what you said!)

Max

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum:

http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=104

GAY LOVE FROM GAY SINGLE TO GAY COUPLE

Let me to start with an analogy derived from physical chemistry, in my opinion really appropriate to introduce the subject. The potential energy of a body in a field of gravity as the terrestrial one we live in is proportional to the height of the body, to bring a body upwards a certain amount of work must to be done that is stored in the form of potential energy in the body and can be returned as kinetic energy when the body falls from the highest position to return to the lowest. All bodies have a natural tendency to occupy the lowest positions that they can reach, i.e. to be located at the minimum possible level of potential energy. Observing the curve of the figure, imagine that we have a body at point A, the minimum point of a curve (a bond) over which the body can move. If the stretch of the curve from A to C had not a maximum but was constantly decreasing, the body naturally would slide in position C and there would remain stably because the point C would be for it the lowest point reached. If, however, between A and C there was a maximum point B the body to pass from A to C should first increase its potential energy by climbing up to the point B and then decrease it down to the point C. The difference in height between A and C represents the difference between the initial state and the final one, if the height of the point C is less than the height of the point A, we can say that the final state C is more stable than the initial one, but whether to move from A to C the body must exceed the maximum represented by the point B to a height greater than the height of A, the body to achieve a more stable final state (C) must move through an intermediate state (B) more unstable (at higher potential energy) compared to the initial A. The difference in height between A and B is the activation energy of the route between A and C, if the body which is located in A does not arrive first in B charging potential energy cannot fall into C markedly decreasing its potential energy compared to the starting point A.

If the body of which we speak cannot receive energy from the outside, the passage from A to C takes place only if there is no activation peak B, and is an irreversible step, the body falls, loses its kinetic energy in the impact and stays there because he cannot regain it. To move the body from C to A it would be necessary to supply power from outside and this was excluded by assumption, the body remains then permanently in C.

If instead it is assumed that it is possible to supply energy to the system from the outside, fails the concept of irreversibility, the body that is located in A must receive from the outside an activation energy equal to the difference in height between A and B (relatively small) to get in C (hypothesized to a lower level of A) and returns energy equal to the difference in height between B and C, higher than the activation energy, the process then, at the end, leads to a decrease in potential energy and to greater stability. If the body was in C it could return to A, but just getting from outside energy equal to the gap between C and B, activation energy of the transition between C and A, and returning at the end a share of energy corresponding to the difference between B and A, lower than the activation energy, in this case the process would result in a final state less stable than that of departure. These concepts have a general validity in many fields and are the basis of the theory of stability.

Let’s apply what has been said in the world of affectivity. Imagine the stress put on the ordinate and imagine the abscissa represents a series of possible states for a guy, from the condition of single “stable”, who don’t even imagine to have a life together with another guy (stretch before the point A) to the single “who is moving towards a couple’s involvement” (stretch AC) up to reach the condition of a couple’s partner in unstable condition (stretch over C). The curve is the so-called curve of stress. Assume that a guy is in state A, the point of minimum stress and then of relative stability. If the peak represented by point B there was not and the stretch of the curve from A to C was constantly decreasing, the way toward a less stressful situation C would be natural and spontaneous. The guy gradually passing from A to C would reduce his stress gradually to the new situation of stability. However it happens very often that the curve of stress presents a maximum between A and C, in this case, to pass from a situation of relative minimum stress A to another relative minimum of stress, inferior to A, represented by point C, is required energy (stress) of activation, i.e. is required an increase in stress leading to overcome stress peak represented by point B, in order to be placed in a final situation of greater stability C.

Suppose that the point A represents a subject in condition of being single in equilibrium and the point C represents the same subject in living couple’s condition in equilibrium. Let us assume for hypothesis that C is a less stressful condition than A, if the curve AC is always descending the transition from A to C is spontaneous and does not present any problem in terms of increased stress, if between A and C there is a maximum B, to move from A to C the activation stress is needed. The higher is this activation stress, the more the process is difficult. Furthermore, if the peak B does not exist, the one that is located in A sees the prospect free up to C, i.e. understands where he is going, and then if the final situation will be of greater or lesser stability, but if the peak B exists, and then the moving from A to C needs an activation stress, the one that is located in A is not able to see what is beyond the peak B and therefore cannot understand at the outset if the overrun of the stress peak B will be advantageous or disadvantageous, because the point C may also be higher than A and the situation of married life could be more stressful than that of single.

For a hetero, typically, the AC stretch presents no points of maximum between A and C, the subject understands from the beginning towards where he is moving and can therefore realize from the beginning the fact that his condition in situation of couple’s life in some cases would be worse than that of single (C higher than A). For a gay guy, instead, activation stress of the process that leads him from being a single to the couple’s condition does really exist and is represented by social problems and the partial acceptance of homosexuality that must be overcome to get to married life. Moreover for a gay guy it is not predictable from the beginning, for the very existence of the peak B, if the final result of the attempt to reach the condition of couple’s life will be stabilizing (less stress) or further destabilizing (higher stress). Assuming, hypothetically, to simplify the discussion, that the couple’s life is less stressful than single’s life (C lower than A), to move from state A to state C there are many possible ways all different from one another, some of them have very high activation stress, others much lower. Chemists know that the presence of a catalyst causes a reaction with strong activation energy, which thereby tends not to occur, can instead easily take place through a series of intermediate steps all at low activation energy. So in the affective life, thinking to move from a situation of single to that of couple in one step is unrealistic (high activation stress and high uncertainty about the stability of married life compared with the condition of single) and so we try to create a series of intermediate steps, all low activation stress, which can lead to the final result. Inter alia by evaluating the increase of stress step by step you can get an idea of the convenience of the entire process. It starts by creating a contact, then sympathy, then a friendship, a friendship ever closer and with every step you evaluate the opportunity to take the next step.

I come now to the idea of identity and complementarity. A gay guy can fall deeply in love with another guy when he feels really similar to him, in this sense, the fact that the other is gay is a necessary but not sufficient condition. It is not enough to fall in love with a guy, otherwise it would not even be homosexuality, but he must also be a gay guy, because without this condition reciprocity is theoretically impossible. Basically starting from all “guys”, we are limited to the subset “gay guys”, but the progressive restriction of the field goes further by imposing the condition that he is a “gay guy congenial” i.e., one that we can perceive as profoundly similar. Here’s an example of restrictive condition, a hidden gay guy directs his research among the “hidden gay guys.” And yet, a gay guy who has a life experience linked to a strong sense of religion is predominantly oriented towards guys with similar experiences. It is then natural that a guy is orientated towards guys whom he perceives that have a sexuality similar to his own, that is based on similar fantasies and sexual behavior, condition without which the sexual equilibrium is actually very difficult. It is certainly easier to find couple’s harmony between persons closely similar that share the same type of sexuality and for this have no particular inconvenience in couple’s sexuality, that does not require, in these cases, adaptation efforts on the part of either. These identification mechanisms are the basis of the relations of friendship and also apply in the hetero field but in the hetero field sexuality has inevitably well-defined gender roles and then, in a couple’s sexual dimension strictly heterosexual, identification has a very relative sense, while for a gay guy it remains an important value in the strictly sexual field. Why a guy can feel more or less at ease in Gay Project? Why can he be more or less able to make friends in this area? The answer comes by itself, the greater is the degree of affinity with other guys, the higher is the is degree of integration and gratification. For a gay guy towards guys apply rules similar to those that govern the relationships of a straight guy with the girls: there is no defined border between friendship and love, but serious friendship is the minimum condition for any genuine relationship as a couple. I would add that the roles, and do not talk about sex roles, but about familiar ones, for a hetero guy have a meaning also in relation to children, in these situations the differentiation between the male and the female in the couple is automatic and spontaneous. Among gay people instead the condition of substantial equality is one of the few guarantees of equilibrium and stability. The more the relationship is unbalanced, the more is fragile. I should add that among gay people identification mechanism also acts deeply within the couple already established, if it is a real couple: sometimes a guy assumes the attitudes of the other or the attitudes of the face and body, ways of expression, and also of reasoning are shared and, over time, if the relationship goes on well, each guy actually perceives the other as the other half of himself. These mechanisms act in the same way in loving friendships, more or less unilaterally sexualized, and in so called best friendships that for a gay guy can be a step “low activation stress” to more engaging relationships.

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http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=102

THE REAL GAY SEXUALITY

About gay sexuality there are a lot of urban legends based on things that with gay sexuality have really nothing to do, such as pornography or improbable analogies with straight sexual behavior, as if gay sexuality were somehow similar to hetero sexuality.

Hetero sexuality is a sexuality that is complementary, there are acts (vaginal penetration) without which the sexual intercourse is not even an actual intercourse, the distinction between preliminaries and sexual act itself has a biological significance in terms of procreation, the gender roles are essential because a man and a woman are sexually differentiated.

In a relationship between two guys, i.e. in a homosexual relationship, a guy doesn’t seek complementarity, on the contrary he loves his partner because sees that guy precisely as another guy, male from all points of view. A gay guy doesn’t’ see at all his partner as a replacement of a woman, it makes no sense to talk about gender roles in gay relationships and even in gay sexual relationships and it makes no sense to think that there is a behavior without which gay sexual intercourse is not an actual gay sexual intercourse.

Pornography carries traditional concepts very different from those just expressed. Let’s ask ourselves why. Between the definition of “gay as a guy who falls in love with guys,” which is what we take for right definition here in the Project and I think justifiably, and the definition of “gay as a guy who has sex with guys”, which is the common definition of a gay guy, there is an abyss.

These are two very different concepts and there are a lot of guys who have sex with guys without even falling in love with them, most of pornography is dedicated to them, they are often people who also have a straight sexual life and consider sex with a guy as a diversion, of course, these people tend to bring in a relationship with a guy behavior patterns typically straight as the idea that the essence of sexuality is the penetration or the idea of gender roles that is very far from spontaneous sexuality of guys who fall in love with other guys.

When I talk about gay sexuality I’m not referring to pornography or to what people believe to be gay but typically to what most guys who fall in love with guys (i.e. gay in this sense) live and desire. This “real” gay sexuality has nothing to do with rampant pornography, to the point that a gay guy (in our sense) in a porn video tends to see especially the first part and leaves the video when the affective dimension disappears at all, but I would add that the most popular videos among the guys who really love guys, are videos of pampering and sexual tenderness, things that generally to consumers of pornography, who have sex with guys but doesn’t love them, appear to be free of the essential content and almost trivial. In a dimension of true gay sexuality as a form of affection are just the affectionate gestures that have huge value, including sexual, yes, but a value of deeply affective sexuality.

Let me explain with an example, looking at each other and exchanging a warm smile during a physical contact with another guy, while caressing each other, even intimately, is something that has a huge significance in terms of emotional exchange. The sexual togetherness, traveling on the same wavelength is also the sign of an affective togetherness which is the basis of that sexuality. And then there’s a fundamental thing: it does not matter what you do, but with whom you do it. Those looking for sex (so-called gay) in a chat to go straight to the point are interested in “what” not in “with whom”. I would say that these people are not gay but are just guys who have sex with guys.

The red circle represents the set of guys who have sex with guys, the common definition of gay guys, the blue circle represents the guys who fall in love with guys, our definition of gay guys, these two circles have in common the area 2 where sexuality is linked to falling in love. The area 1 represents sexuality lacking a true affective component, and the area 3 represents guys who fall in love with guys but do not have sex with them. People commonly defined as gay sexuality that of the red circle, but the real gay sexuality is that of the area 2 and is a typical affective sexuality.

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http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=101

GAY SEXUAL SATISFACTION AND SEXUAL COUPLE'S COMPATIBILITY

This post is dedicated to a reflection on two important concepts in the sexual life of both heterosexual and gay:

1) The sexual satisfaction

2) The couple’s compatibility

Obviously I’ll treat the arguments in relation to gay reality on the basis of the  experience gained in chat with gay guys. Some premises are essential. Guys arrive at the couple’s sexuality after a run of years in which sexuality is defined and stabilizes and after a period, longer or shorter, of psicological investigation about the potential partener prior to sexual contact. Very schematically, we can speak of

1) ORIGINAL STRUCTURATION OF PERSONAL SEXUALITY

When a guy comes to live a couple sexuality his sexuality is usually well structured from many years and has a well-defined and well-established structure built on the basis of masturbation and fantasies connected.

2) PREFIGURATION OF COULPE SEXUALITY

Already before reaching sexual contact with his partner, in the phase of falling in love, the guy prefigures sexual intercourse with his partner through masturbation or through patterns consistent with his sexuality that sometimes may not end up in masturbation because of the so-called sublimation of falling in love. Somehow he prefigures the sexual couple relationship, in other words tends to interpret unilaterally the future sexual intercourse with his partner as ideal completion of his masturbatory fantasies.

3) COUPLE SEXUALITY

After a longer or shorter period of emotional contact, not explicitly sexual, the two guys arrive at the couple sexuality after living, usually through masturbation, a prefiguration of the couple sexuality built on the basis of the individual sexuality. All that precedes this phase belongs to the world of individual sexuality, depends on the individual experiences and is completely independent of the actual interaction with the other guy. Everything that happens in the couple sexuality is instead highly dependent on the mode of interaction of the two prefigurations of couple sexuality and on the two individual sexualities.

4) THE SEXUAL SATISFACTION

The sexual satisfaction in a couple relationship is derived from the greater or lesser correspondence of the actual couple sexuality with its individuale prefiguration, so that the greater or lesser satisfation in couple sexuality depends on how much the real couple sexuality matches the individual contents of the masturbatory fantasies.

5) SEXUAL COUPLE COMPATIBILITY

Sexual couple compatibility depends mainly on the degree of correspondence between the two prefigurations of that relationship by the two partners. If the two guys have very similar or complementary sexual expectations, couple compatibility will be good. If the two guys are expecting sexual behaviors significantly different, the compatibility will be low and the couple’s sex life can be a component of discomfort also very strong, to the point that it can lead to disintegration of the couple.

In the couple sexuality can emerge typical issues of sexuality of individuals but also problems entirely new related to the couple’s incompatibility. Let us consider three particular cases.

1) A (gay) falls in love with B (hetero). It is obvious that reciprocity is completely lacking: B is in the masturbatory fantasies of A but A is not in the fantasies of B. Not only that, the sexual fantasies of the two guys are totally different and do not have common features. The two individual sexualities are structured in a different way. The guy A prefigures a sexual relationship with B or at least thinks that B is gay; B clearly does not even thinks of any sexual contact with A. In this case the sexual couple’s incompatibility is very evident. I add as a corollary that in such situations often A tends to project its affective-sexual world on B and reads the behavior of B in a gay key or is looking forward  to a possible evolution of B towards being gay, something totally meaningless, because B already has a sexuality that has been structured over the years.

2) A (gay) falls in love with B (bisexual with intermediate bisexuality). Here the situation is very delicate. We have to remember first of all that there are two different types of bisexuality:

a) Alternating bisexuality, in which a person during the life goes through 2, 3 or even 4 different periods, lasting several years, where he lives alternately a strictly hetero sexuality or a strictly gay sexuality. When an alternating bisexual is in gay phase he is a 100% gay and his masturbation fantasies are 100% gay, in a similar way when he is in straight phase he is straight 100% and his masturbatory fantasies are exclusively heterosexual. Alternating bisexuals have to face real problems when they undergo a transition from one phase to another, because often these situations can destroy marriages that seemed extremely solid with many serious conflicts within the family.

b) Intermediate bisexuality, in which a person is sexually attracted to people of both sexes and has masturbatory fantasies not elusively gay or not exclusively straight.

Transient phases of intermediate bisexuality occur sometimes among gay men who after a straight imprinting (first sexual contact) in a very young age, lived a hetero phase and start to realize definitely that they are gay. In these cases it is not a true bisexuality but an evolutionary phase that accompanies the emergence of true sexual gay identity. Typically in these situations, the polarization of sexuality toward the gay sexuality is completed at age around 20/21years. If this does not happen and sexuality is not polarized, i. e. if masturbatory fantasies do not become exclusively gay or exclusively heterosexual but remain present in both orientations maintaining more or less the same proportion over time, then it makes sense to speak of intermediate bisexuality.

So an intermediate bisexual has masturbatory fantasies both straight and gay. If his patterns are more markedly hetero type, his homosexual fantasies will be quite different from those typical of a guy 100% gay, just because an intermediate bisexual markedly straight will live the relationship with a guy with categories influenced by his prevailing straight orientation. Despite all the reservations, due to the low (not very small) number of such situations taken into account, I find that a bisexual intermediate:

A) tends to consider the anal penetration fundamental reserving for himself the active role in a homosexual relationship.

B) He likes the partner do oral sex on him but tends not to take similar initiatives towards his partner.

C) In the mutual masturbation tends to be masturbated avoiding to masturbate his partner.

When a gay guy falls in love with an intermediate bisexual must always understand that his partner is not really a gay and that the couple’s compatibility can be low, even if a bisexual is interested in a sexual relationship with a gay, the symmetry between the prefiguration of the relationship of a gay guy and that of the intermediate bisexual is usually is very relative. A characteristic symptom of sexual discomfort is called “forcing”, that is the attitude that tends to impose or expect from the partner behaviors that he does not want spontaneously, a common occurrence is in relation to anal penetration. In general, the forcing is accompanied by expressions such as “you will see that you will like it.” This sentence reveals a tendency to impose his own vision of sexuality.

Keep in mind that often the situation of unease in the couple sexuality does not emerge in a conscious way but manifests as true sexual dysfunction through problems of loss of erection or ejaculation. When these things happen the couple’s compatibility is low, the partner is surprised, he cannot find a reason and tends to attribute the failure in responding of his partner to sexual individual problems of wich his partner is probably unaware. It is not uncommon that guys who haven’t the slightest erectile deficit during the masturbation instead manifest an evident erection deficit during sexual activity in conditions of low couple’s compatibility. In this case, the erectile dysfunction is attributable to the couple relationship that the guy feels as substantially unsatisfactory. It is not unusual for gay guys who tend to form a couple with an intermediate bisexual, completely underestimate the fact that there may be a reduced sexual compatibility, and then, after some time, they realize that this relationship is not exactly what they would have wished, and that sexual behavior and fantasies of a gay and those of an intermediate bisexual are only vaguely similar. In many cases, as a result of the emergence of the sexual incompatibility after a while the gay-bisexual couple breaks.

3) A (gay) falls in love with B (gay). This is probably the situation that in principle should create less compatibility problems, but even here couple’s sex problems, although less weight, are not uncommon. Many factors can lead to different structuring of sexuality of both partners. In a purely indicative way, I quote a few:

a) The sexual imprinting, or the first conscious contact with the sexuality (often but not always the first sexual intercourse) that may have been straight or gay.

b) Any sexual abuse.

c) The presence or absence of a phase of couple’s heterosexuality in one or both partners and the presence or absence of a concomitant masturbation with gay fantasies.

d) The dependence of masturbatory fantasies on models of pornography.

e) The education they have received and especially the religious education.

f) The previous sexual experiences.

It is clear that also between gay guys the couple’s sex compatibility is not so frequent and obvious, the problems can be very different and from what I’ve seen it is not infrequent to find forms of non-sexual incompatibilities that interact in different ways with the sexual incompatibilities. I am referring to incompatibilities related to relationships between openly gay guys and hidden gay guys, related to have and to strive to maintain each one a large autonomy of behavior both in the general affective life and sometimes in sexual matters, but often incompatibilities have absolutely nothing to do with sexuality, as in the case of incompatibilities due to the radical difference in social origins or cultural level.

Only one thing seems absolutely essential to underline. First of all, for two gay guys, before reaching sexual contact, it is essential to understand whether or not it’s really possible to build a serious relationship, and of course it’s extremely useful talking seriously about sexuality.

Then, in the couple’s life in general, emotional and social, as in the actual exercise of sexuality, it should be always kept in mind that the couple’s logic in very different from the individual one. In a gay couple’ life roles are normally equal and the sexual initiative, that is the timing, is not assigned to one of the partners exclusively.

A fundamental concept must be kept in mind, namely that gay sexuality is a form of love, and that’s why in that field, the forcing is not absolutely eligible because it radically damages the relationship. The couple sexuality must be explored as a couple and without running too much as individuals into strictly individual directions. It is useful to talk, discuss and ensure full respect to the other to his time and to his sexuality. At this point I emphasize that there is nothing more unpleasant for a guy than receive a negative comment or, worse, an ironic comment about his sexual performance by his partner. A similar behavior is the classic sign of a serious incompatibility. Consider your partner complexed, clumsy, childish in his approach to sexuality, immature, is like to explicitly declare a serious couple’s sexual incompatibility.

Another fundamental concept: sexuality in a relationship between two gay guys is important and is a way of loving, but it is not always the most important thing, you build a relationship establishing a real community of life with a common design about the future, with a couple’s vision at 360 degrees. When sexuality is substantially integrated into a real emotional life, many problems of partial couple’s sexual incompatibility can be overcome in view of a deeply satisfying balance at the global level, and a choice made consciously and shared in this direction is not a waiver but it is just the sign of a couple’s life lived with a sense of responsibility and love.

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum:

http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=93