Showing posts with label gay friendship. Show all posts
Showing posts with label gay friendship. Show all posts

Wednesday, December 2, 2020

A QUIET GAY COUPLE

 Hi Project,

I remember starting to hang out on your forum many years ago and it made me a little vaccinated against dating sites, applications and especially easy sex. Somehow I owe you a lot, even if you don't know, because I met my partner, with whom I have lived for years, on the Gay Project Chat, when there was a lot of people and there were even two chat channels. You don't know me, because I was one of those hit and run users and then I would have been very embarrassed talking to you. 

I'm 35 now and my partner is 31. I can say that all in all we are a nice couple. He is really beautiful, I am much less, but we are a beautiful couple because we have been living together for more than eight years and we love each other. My name is Paul and my partner is called John. We have always been calm and have had a lot of luck, in addition to meeting on Gay Project and feeling a little fond of the environment, even if from the outside. 

We both had families that didn't cause us any problems. They certainly struggled to accept our relationship, but at least they didn’t create problems of principle, I would say that above all my parents struggled to accept the situation when they didn’t know John in person and therefore reasoned a lot in the abstract. John's parents had an excellent relationship with him even before and would never have been afraid that he might get into trouble. We are both only children, which on the one hand made family relationships easier but on the other, perhaps, made it more difficult to accept the idea of a gay son, but in the end, our parents met and made friends. This was our second luck, but the most important one was that we were just fine together. 

We are not partygoers, not obsessed with fashion, we don't smoke, we don't drink, we work a lot but without the determination to make a career or money at all costs, because we want to enjoy our life. First we studied, then we had to think about finding work and we had little time for ourselves, now that our work situations are at least relatively stabilized, we want to have some time for ourselves, not to travel or to do who knows what, but just to be among us. We always had both Saturdays and Sundays free and on Saturday evenings we had fun cooking something different, or doing laundry and ironing, or cleaning the house, and then we would get together on the sofa to watch TV. They may seem trivial things, but staying lying on the sofa and feeling the warmth of my partner's body leaning against me fills me with tenderness. A caress and a smile are the best thing in the world if they come from the right person. 

Before getting to know each other we had some experiences but minimal, a little disappointing, and therefore in a certain sense educational, but never traumatic. I mean that we have understood that to be well together you have to stay on the same wavelength, that is, you have to see life in a rather similar way, otherwise the contradictions sooner or later come out. That is, in love the “who” counts much more than the “what” and the “how”.

 Since we met we have lived in strict monogamy, not out of a theoretical duty of fidelity or out of fear of diseases but because we were well together. We looked for our sexual equilibrium together and it wasn't even difficult to find it because even from that point of view we reasoned more or less the same way. Sex between us exists and has always existed, since the beginning, but other moments in life have not been less fundamental for us. 

In particular, it happened to me a few years ago to lose my job and at that moment I felt John very close. He knew that I was going through a very difficult time and he was close to me not in words, but by spending hours scrolling through advertisements and checking employment opportunities and conditions. Sometimes we spent the night in front of the computer preparing and mailing resumes, and we went out on Saturdays for job interviews. The problem of work was my problem but I felt very comforted by John's presence and I think that if the problem had been his he could not have done more than he did for me, and all this operationally, without useless chatter. He was anxious that I find the best possible job and quickly, he didn't think in the least to have to show me that he was taking care of it, he didn't have to make a good impression but to solve the problem. 

He and I both had few friends before we met, then our friends met and his friends became my friends and vice versa. Now the friends are no longer mine or his but ours, in the sense of us as a couple, they are seven people in all, two straight couples, a gay couple and a straight guy looking for a girl. Among us everyone knows everything about everyone and there have never been problems. When I tell it nobody believes it, they tell me it's impossible, but that's exactly what happens. 

Now I feel serene and I only have in the background the fear that all this could be upset at any moment by something unexpected and terrible, because when you have achieved your happiness you are afraid of losing it. In our life there have been no sensational facts, it was all very peaceful. Our parents are all still in good health and things should go on like this for at least ten years. The Covid virus, which for many people was a shock, brought both of us the opportunity to work from home. We work, yes, but there are no more transfer times and we have much more time for ourselves. 

I am experiencing how important it is to be two in the substantial sense of the term, it is something that reassures you, that makes you feel good, and then you realize that you are also important for your partner, you know that you can put him in a good mood when he is sad or frustrated and above all you have a reason not to let yourself go when it turns bad, you have to feel good for him too, and it is not a small thing, it makes you bring out the best you have inside. When he is in a good mood, John hums and consequently I feel happy, when he stays too long without humming it means that there is something wrong and that he needs a caress or a kiss, and it works. 

When we met we didn't live in the same city but in very close cities, just a few minutes away by train. We met every time we had a free afternoon, so at least twice a week, then slowly we began to move by car, also to have a place to stay and talk with a minimum of tranquility and privacy when it rained, because at the beginning our parents knew nothing about us; when they knew about us, basically a year after we met, John came to my house and I went to his house a lot of times, there were no problems, it's true, but we had need to have a little intimacy and that's how we started thinking about looking for work in the same city and living together. 

Basically, I sent many resumes to companies in his city when he was still finishing his studies and I found a job in his city. He was not earning yet and the idea of taking an apartment together, I mean buying it together, that is, paying it each for a half, was not feasible, and so I was in a "student" rent, that is, in a rent that could be renovated annually and things went on like this for almost two years, but at least we had our own little place. 

By the time he started working our parents met for the first time and week after week they got to know each other better and so, making a tremendous effort, they paid us an advance for the purchase of an apartment. To tell the truth, it wasn't all easy because neither his parents nor mine were in favor of a joint purchase, because if the relationship did not go well there would also be the problem of  sharing the house. But frankly, such an eventuality seemed completely unthinkable to both John and me and so we purchased the apartment. 

The mortgage was not very heavy because we worked in two, then when I lost my job and I was without work for almost a year, that is, I did odd jobs for almost a year, for me, paying my share was not really easy, I continued to pay it anyway, but John paid all the bills, taxes, car tax and insurance, among other things we had also sold my car which was newer and worth something more, and we had kept for us only the John's one, because, since we lived in the same house, we didn't need two cars. We took a short mortgage to pay less interest. We would have made a more intense but shorter effort. Today we are only a year away from the end of the mortgage and then our house will truly be ours. 

John says very well about the place where he works and his colleagues but he doesn't consider them friends, he never receives them at home. I have my satisfactions in the workplace but in a sense I don't physically have a place where to work, that is, in theory I do, but over 10 days, at least eight I spend them around the province, with the company car, to make inspections and to install systems. The teams of workers I work with change every time and I always find myself in the role of the expert who comes from outside but who has nothing to do with the environment. My bosses trust me because I don't create problems and on the contrary I solve them if there are any. If I have to tell the truth, I have never had any real work problems, some complications yes, but for administrative problems and only for that. 

John, on the other hand, had some problems with a girl who has lost her mind a bit for him, and she is a colleague of his, but they don't really work together. We talked about it but I didn't know what to tell him. In the end, he showed detached and the girl put her soul in peace, without the need to say anything and make statements of any kind. The whole story didn't last more than a couple of months and it ended by itself. Such things have never happened to me because there are no women in my workplace. In this period of my life I feel happy and I see that John also feels happy. 

Project, if you want to publish this email you can certainly do it, I often hear guys (straight but not only) who talk about homosexuality as if it were a kind of catastrophe and talk about homosexuals as a kind of damned race. I don’t know what experiences they have had in life and I don’t allow myself to judge anyone, I limit myself only to saying that it is precisely homosexuality that has made me happy. I love John and I feel loved by him. They may well be rare things, but these things do really exist! 

See you Project! John too greets you. Thanks for what you unknowingly did for me and for John! 

Paul

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If you want, you can participate in the discussion on this post open on the Gay Project Forum:

http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-quiet-gay-couple

Wednesday, October 28, 2020

GAY SEX AND MELANCHOLY

 Hi Project,

we met on chat last winter and you were the only one who told me that my story with Max was a very serious thing and I think it really is. I’m sending you these reflections of mine to update you, perhaps they could be included in the forum, I would like it. 

Yesterday I spent the night with Max, the guy I’ve known for several years, who is not my boyfriend, because I don’t have a boyfriend, but with whom it sometimes happens. Our sex night has been very different from how people imagine these things. Seen from the outside, everything would be normal, sex, in behavior, is more or less always the same, but lived with a strong emotional involvement it can take on a thousand meanings, even apparently contradictory: participation and detachment, illusion of having involved the other in our world and acknowledgment that this is not the case, and in particular sexual participation and affective detachment on the one hand and strong affective participation and decidedly weaker sexual involvement on the other. The asymmetries between me and Max are apparently profound but the similarities are certainly deeper and our asymmetries have progressively reduced over the years and in any case have never been destructive. I know well that this is not the classic language of lovers, but there are many kinds of love, some of them lead to the need to absolutize and mythologize opening the door to hopes and dreams without foundation, others pass through this stage without too many dreams. The illusion that sex can solve all problems, can remove anxious people from anxiety, the indifferent ones from indifference and can create that magical atmosphere that is a bit like the Arab Phoenix, which everyone talks about, even if it doesn’t exist, unfortunately it is a weak postulate of sexuality that doesn’t stand up to comparison with reality.

All this doesn’t mean at all that sex has no meaning because it doesn’t work miracles, but that it can have another meaning, even partial and relative, and that this other meaning, a liberating meaning because it is communicative, affective and stabilizing, in some cases can become the most important one. You can have sex with enthusiasm or even out of desperation, of course, sex may not solve everything, but it is still a help, a different way of looking for a real contact that can also be frustrating but can, despite everything, allow a form of communication that would be very difficult to realize verbally. My sexual contacts with Max have apparently always been problematic. He cares a lot about sex, and especially when he’s alone, he’s looking for me to have sex. When he’s not looking for me, I know he’s found a boyfriend and all in all he’s fine with him. It seems paradoxical, but I’m happy when he doesn’t look for me, but not because I feel bad with him or because I want an exclusivity from him that I don’t find, but simply because I know that if he doesn’t look for me it is because he is fine and does not need me. Do I need him? I’ve asked myself this many times, of course he hasn’t been the only guy in my life, but he has been certainly the only important guy. During the day I think about him many times, I’m convinced that he is an excellent person from all points of view, physically he embodies my ideal type, if I were to lose him definitively, a hypothesis that seems objectively unrealistic to me, because we have known each other for a long time and our relationship has gone through storms of all kinds without falling apart, I think I would feel very bad, but if it happened because he found a guy and feels fulfilled, well, then I would accept it, but losing him with the awareness that he is abandoned to his melancholy, well, I wouldn’t accept this, it would make me feel really bad, I would consider it a heavy failure of my life. I don’t want him to be mine, even if I would like it, I want him to be happy!

Max had called me three days ago after a long silence that lasted more than two months, but in those two months he hadn’t completely disappeared, he had called me a couple of times for a few seconds to ask me how I was and to tell me that he had found a guy with which he was fine. He knows that receiving news of this kind, for me, it is a positive thing and his phone calls are due precisely to this. Three days ago he calls me and it is evident that he is not well, the enthusiasm is no longer there and melancholy reigns supreme, he speaks little, he only says very significant things and listens. The phone call ends well, at least as far as possible, but it is clear that he is alone or that at least he feels alone despite everything. Yesterday afternoon he calls me and tells me that he will come to me in the late evening, I tell him that I’m waiting for him and that I’m pleased to see him, which is very true. While I was waiting for him I changed the bed linen and the pillow case, cleaned the room a bit and open the windows, I can’t deny that I was happy to see him again.

Last night I did everything to put Max at ease, at certain moments he was serene, distracted, he smiled, joked, it was a wonderful thing, and for me those were the most beautiful moments, those I try to impress in my memory, but in other times, if I looked into his eyes, I realized that he was on the verge of crying, He participated in sex with me, at least in certain moments, but didn’t completely detach himself from his problems and thoughts, I would have done everything to get him away from his frustrations and his feelings of emptiness, I was under the illusion that sex could do this miracle, but obviously it was impossible. The deep reasons for his melancholy were there, they had not been eliminated and they smoldered like fire under the ashes, you could see them in his eyes. I had my sexual problems with him last night, as it has happened at other times, I would have told him about it, as I have done other times, but he looked me straight in the eyes and passed his index finger in front of his mouth as if to tell me to shut up and that there was no need to say anything, because in fact he didn’t care about sex. Sex was the official reason for our meeting, but the real reason was to realize that we still exist for each other and to see that the mutual physical attraction, that confirms that there is a real interest on the other side, still exists between us, and that nothing has failed or changed at least between us. He never points out the failures or weaknesses of others, but only his own. I asked him if he was disappointed in me, he replied that he was not at all disappointed but that he saw me tired, and I really was, because in fact he has much more resistance than me. What was the point of having sex with me if in the end, even if he wasn’t disappointed, he still didn’t succeed in removing his melancholy? I think that behind all this there is a desire to be accepted for who he really is. In sex he has patience, he is very sweet, he guides me, he never gets angry, and with me patience is really needed.

The nakedness of the body is the symbol of the nakedness of the soul. Spending time naked, together, without sex, but only to rest when a bit of fatigue occurs, gives the feeling of being fully accepted by the other because that non-sexual moment is probably more important than everything else, because it is a moment of normality: you stay with your partner as you would be with yourself, you don’t involve him in a moment of sexual performance but in a moment of your daily life, you don’t have to prove anything to him, you just have to be as you are. But anyhow that deep loneliness that comes from the knowledge, real or assumed, that you will never have what you really want and that your whole life will be filled with substitutions and substitutes for what you really want cannot be broken, not even this way. The feeling that that state of dissatisfaction that has grayed your life up to now will manifest itself anyway, identical or almost, many other times it seems a granite certainty that will condition and devalue the future.

He noticed that last night I never said no to him, that I followed him in everything and this fact gratified him a little, not so much for the sex but because he understands that if I don’t tell him no it means that I realize that he feels really bad. In certain moments, I would say in the moments when he was further away from his negative thoughts, I think he had the feeling that a strong bond was being created between us, but he would have wanted to create that kind of bond with another person with whom he knows he cannot create anything like that, and therefore something that in itself could be beautiful has turned into another frustrating thought, and I think his wet eyes were due precisely to this.

What does it mean to love and be loved? Each of us, at different times, gives different meanings to those words and they are often incompatible meanings: bond and freedom; selfishness and altruism; happiness and martyrdom. Why does a very handsome guy, very intelligent and in many non-affective respects even very fulfilled, end up crushed, at least in certain moments, by depression, by the idea that the world sucks and that the future can only be worse than the present? I have known Max for many years and I love him but I realize that our acquaintance, which is also a long-standing acquaintance, based on mutual respect and affection, cannot alleviate his melancholy. Max has an extreme need for affection but always claims his autonomy, his not wanting to depend on anyone. His self-esteem largely depends on the level of his autonomy. He tries to reconcile the fact of being loved with the fact of being totally free, perhaps with me he succeeds but with others this attempt ends always in a failure.

By now, several hours have passed since our sex night and I keep thinking about it, and the dominant feeling is that there was something not expressed, that sex was just an excuse to be accepted with all his melancholy. I tried to understand how he could feel, but except for the slightest flashes of smile, very few but very beautiful, the dominant tone was one of sadness. At one point we stopped and he started talking to me about his frustrations and his sadness, and deep down he didn’t understand the cause of it. In a way, he accepts half things from me, but from the guys he is really interested in he would like total involvement, but even there he finds only half things and tells himself that he is better off alone, but then he doesn’t accept the idea of being alone and looks for me and in the end he realizes that he is alone even when he’s  with me and so he comes back to his melancholy. He tells me that I behave with him a bit like he behaves with the guys he cares about, in the sense that I always say yes and I try to please him and then I feel bad because he doesn’t correspond to me, or at least at the affective level, he does not correspond to me as I would like. I tried to make him understand that I love him, but this expression, spoken by me, scares him, I told him that I’m not at all upset that he has sex with other guys, but I wish he wasn’t sad and he could manage to chase out that black melancholy that he carries inside, but this discourse seems strange to him, as if behind it there was the desire to cage him, to take away his freedom.

Last night my sexual behaviors were hesitant, we were having sex, nevertheless I was afraid to caress his face, afraid to kiss him, which I haven’t done in a very long time, because these things make him think that I fell in love with him and that between us a dissymmetrical and sick relationship is taking place. We can have sex, but exchanging tenderness, cuddles, it would be difficult for him to accept it, but not because he considers such behaviors childish or too sweet but because of the emotional content they express. I think of sex above all as the physical proximity of the guy I love, for him to associate sex and affectivity is difficult, he has dreamed of it with other people, but he has never realized his dream and at least, with me, he finds something similar to what he has dreamed of. The emotional involvement on my part is deep and he realizes it but at the same time he fears it, because he doesn’t want to end up in anyone’s orbit. He confuses love and addiction, for him the two things are essentially identical. He has always told me that he is not in love with me and he has always been convinced that I was in love with him, in reality I love him, in the sense that I would like to see him happy because he has unique virtues that not even he knows he has, he is not aggressive, he is not angry with others but with himself, he does not complain, he does not reproach. Last night I asked him if he was disappointed and he told me that he was satisfied instead, but this means that he felt satisfied not with the sex but with the fact that the wall built by me against his melancholy has not collapsed and that I remain close to him despite all, I think the meaning of the evening was just that. I know well that when he is with me he doesn’t think of me, except in some magical moments, and that he always carries with him the heavy baggage of his thoughts and this is precisely what I would like to happen less and less, I don’t say I would like it happen nevermore  because I know it will happen anyway. I would like the spaces of clear weather on a gray day to become many and long, that that light smile would be seen more often, that those eyes were not so often wet with melancholy.

I love one thing above all about him, honesty, the fact that he never acts a role, that he wants to be accepted even in what he considers his weakest sides, his contradictions. It strikes me a lot when he tells me he wants to be alone, because he doesn’t say it thinking of me but the guys he is in love with and who don’t return his love, he feels those bonds as forms of addiction. He loves those guys but he realizes that they don’t love him the same way, they wouldn’t feel really bad if he broke away from them, after a few weeks they wouldn’t call him anymore because mentally they would have already gone their own way. He never tells me that he wants to break away from me very simply because he doesn’t feel me like a bond, he realizes that I can never be a viable hypothesis for him and this fact reassures him, he’s aware that, despite some pampering too much, I will not try to cage him, that I will be there when he needs me, as on the other hand he has been there when I needed him, but in my loving him I will leave him free. He knows that ours is anyhow a stable relationship, which has lasted for years and doesn’t claim to become a bond at any level. We rarely hear each other, we see each other even more rarely, when we see each other there is a little bit of sex, which by his standards I don’t think is very exciting, but above all there is that little bit of emotional warmth that he lacks. When we make love, he hugs me very strongly and these are the moments when she is better and puts aside other thoughts. Sex, for him, is a way of expressing himself that I think in most cases remains completely misunderstood. Sex for him is affectivity embodied and when I see him happy to be with me, because sometimes it happens, I think that, even if he devalues these things, it also gives my presence an important emotional value. He tells me I’m not his type but he’s fine with me. He tells me that he appreciates the fact that I don’t judge him, that I don’t shoot stupid sentences, that I know how to shut up at the right moment, that I never keep him under pressure, that I have the perception of the limit, he sees these things as a form of hesitation and respect. He feels that I try to make him feel good, he is not afraid of me, he trusts me, at least up to a certain point, he can talk about his melancholy, his failures, his way of feeling inadequate to build truly mutual relationships. In fact he is not the guy who attracts people, to appreciate him you have to know him closely, his frankness is unsettling, but if he loves you even a little, he doesn’t forget you, he doesn’t bury you in the past. With his ex-boyfriends, at least with the serious ones, because there have also been some, in the end he maintained a relationship, sporadic but real.

When I talk to him, it strikes me that his answers are always different from how I expect them. I feel that he is another, he is not my double, he doesn’t talk just to talk, he doesn’t always agree with me, he doesn’t trivialize but takes me seriously, he listens to me, he remembers the things I tell him. I don’t know how to define our relationship and I think it cannot be defined by any common category, we are both strange, we are different but we understand each other, we are also different in sexuality but in the end we found our balance and I didn’t think it would happen, neither on his part nor on mine, and instead it happened. There is not the slightest embarrassment, we know our physical and mental limits and we don’t let ourselves be conditioned. I’ve had other guys, let’s say less complicated, but with him it’s different, he never made stupid talk about sex, after I met him in my life there has been no room for anyone else. I met a lot of very beautiful guys, but he is different, he is not my boyfriend but I love him in a deep way.

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If you want, you can participate in the discussion on this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-sex-and-melancholy

GAY GUYS AND OVER 30 CRISIS

 Hi Project,

I have read so many of the things you have posted in the forum, your and others’ things, that I seem to understand your way of reasoning. I especially liked real stories. I understand that there is also a need to catalog, but the human world is that of individuals and not that of categories. I especially liked the “non-standard” stories as you call them, even if, I tell you frankly, stories of that kind have never happened to me, and are certainly exceptions rather far from becoming the rule.

There is a problem that I often think about these days and it is the loss of affective values as we age, I’m not talking about old age, in which you perhaps may lose sexuality or the urgency of sexuality, but I think that anyway affectivity remains. I’m referring to the thirty years old or better to the first years after thirty which for me are the most complicated age in the life of other guys, in which affectivity fades to the advantage of sexuality. I’m 40 years old now and honestly, when I was around the age of 30 and immediately afterwards I didn’t go through a cooling of affectivity because my affectivity has always been very slowed down by education and a thousand objective impossibilities. In the guys I have known very closely, however, I have practically always seen the crisis of affectivity after the age of thirty. Generally they reproach me for not giving space to sexuality and for “chatting too much” but also for being depressed, for putting people in a bad mood, depressing them and extinguishing their enthusiasm, especially sexual, with too melancholy speeches. The guys I have been with, after the initial period of falling in love, didn’t try to build a solid relationship with me, on the contrary they tended to move away whenever the emotional dimension became or risked becoming prevalent. There was a recurring situation that systematically put me in crisis and that is the fact that when a guy was depressed, angry, frustrated and so on, not for reasons dependent on me but for other reasons, he used to tell me: “What a terrible shit day today!” and this was always both the starting and the ending of the conversation, that is, guys didn’t allow me to enter the world of their frustrations and private melancholies. I would have liked a real dialogue and instead the whole discourse either referred strictly to sex and only to that or it became so academic and theoretical up to losing any interest. I had a sexual intimacy with those guys, but only that, as for the rest they were closed worlds in which I wasn’t allowed to enter. I really loved some of these guys, because there had been also periods when we were not just a couple of strangers who meet to have sex and that’s it, but then, after the honeymoon, the emotional distancing began, not the sexual one, which was generally much slower. I have always thought I could be much more attractive on an emotional level than on a sexual one and instead for those guys it was exactly the opposite. I asked myself many times what they could find in me and I never understood it. But if you not only have sex with a guy but you realize that he cares, not about you, but about having sex with you, what is the value of the sex we have together? Sometimes, and I emphasize this, only a few times, I have felt used. Let’s understand each other well: it was okay for me to have sex with those guys, but I couldn’t stand it all ending there, and instead it always happened like this. We used to sleep together but we weren’t even friends, because you talk to a friend and listen to him while we used to go on just to perform sexually. Maybe they were afraid of emotional bonds? Maybe they had been emotionally badly scalded sometimes. I remember a guy I had seen one afternoon and after we had done what we had to do, when I asked him to stay with me a little longer but, note well, after sex, he replied that he couldn’t because he had to go out with friends. But why do you come and have sex with me if then going out with friends is more important than being with me? But obviously I couldn’t ask him such a question. Many times I have tried to put myself in those guys’ shoes and I seemed to understand that deep down they may have their motivations, because they are not stupid, but in the end I realize that my interest in those guys has gone away too, fading over the years. At first I used to see them as central figures in my life, I repeat, in the phase of falling in love and honeymoon, then things changed and I too began to distance, not that I didn’t care anymore, but that interest strong, that physical need of the early days had vanished. Before we used to meet very often, they called me and I called them, then I stopped calling them and they continued, but they didn’t even ask me how I was, they used to go immediately to the concrete proposal: “I’ll come to you and then we have to (omissis) What do you say?” So, Project, let’s also assume that these guys after the honeymoon are tired of my affection and continue to look for me only for sex, which doesn’t upset me at all, because little by little you get used to everything, but, I wonder, will they ever fall in love seriously, that is, permanently, with someone? They are not kids, they are adults and no longer very young. It’s true that we are all very different and that there are no general rules, but by dint of devaluing affectivity we end up being alone and nothing is built. You will tell me that they have devalued my affectivity and maybe they have taken a terrible crush on other guys, and it could also be true, but I haven’t lost sight of these guys at all and I can tell you that they don’t seem at all like guys happy with themselves. Don’t tie yourself up too much! Ok, I’m fine with this thought that in the end belongs to me too, I can understand it but sooner or later we must also start to put some fixed points. A guy once gave me a serious talk and opened my eyes to something that I have always greatly underestimated because I used to take it for granted, that guy told me that I was lucky but I shouldn’t allow myself to judge others, because if one wins a lottery he must not allow himself to judge those who have not won it. I have often thought that many of my basic certainties are such because they have never measured themselves against reality. Basically, I use very abstract arguments because I have always found myself on the side of the guy who is neglected at emotional level. In theory I complain about this thing but in the end it suits me and if some guys became fond of me as I was fond of them, in the end I would be the one who runs away. So: flash in the pan! All the reasoning in smoke! In fact I don’t mind that somehow they drift away and that in any case there remains a sexual interest for a long time, in theory it seems silly to me but in practice it has its logic: the fundamental thing is to save one’s freedom! Everyone wants a companion, but they want him how and when they want him, if he’s not according to their model, they look for another one that is closer to their model and above all they want a partner when they want him, because on many occasions he becomes a brake, a bond, a weight to carry around that takes away your freedom. If it’s cold, everyone wants a blanket at the campsite in the evening, but during the day they don’t want to carry their rucksacks. It is understandable but inconsistent. I will never understand the meaning of sex only for sex and yet until now I have found only that. In the thirty-year-olds I met, I saw the tendency towards widening the horizon of possible relationships, but not that towards deepening them. I have often wondered why, despite everything, the sexual interest didn’t fail. It’s clear that, if you spread sexual interest over several people, out of necessity contacts must thin out, however, why don’t they completely disappear? And here I have an answer. My thirty-year-olds gave terrible judgments about their mates with whom they had had stories ended badly  and I talk about judgments about people and I think that with those people they ceased all contacts even those of sex, while about me they said that I was depressed, boring, that I used to extinguish their enthusiasm, but they didn’t have a negative opinion and somehow things went on and then they also told me that I was hypocritical because they said I dodged the talk about sex and even sexual innuendo but anyhow I liked sex a lot, and in a way it is true. But with a hypocrite who first acts as a depressed moralist and then tells you yes, you can also have sex, while with someone who shows you all the enthusiasm and then, when you need something, doesn’t even listen to you and disconnects your phone, well, it is obvious that things are different. I have never said no, or only very few times, also because my thirties were honest with me and never made fun of me. In a way I was lucky. Some of these sporadic relationships of only sex still exist, they are sporadic relationships, it is true, apparently very elementary, that after all I have said, for me should be meaningless, yet they are human contacts that I feel are important. They are marginal in the sense that they certainly don’t invade my whole life, they have nothing extraordinary, yet they have a human dimension that has its own dignity. One said to me: “I come to you when I’m worse off, I come to have sex but I know that if something pushes me towards melancholy and I don’t feel like having sex you won’t send me to hell and perhaps it will even better for you. You are available, for others it’s either sex or it doesn’t make sense, for you it’s different.” He asked me if I pitied him, if I felt sorry for him and such! I replied that he made me feel an infinite tenderness, because he seemed to me a lost soul looking for a quite harbor. He smiled at me and all ended there. Many years have passed and I still see this guy now but at very long intervals, of a month or even two, and I’m glad when he remembers me. When he arrives, he always asks me if I’m in love with someone, he means with other guys, I flash to him my best smile as to say that there are no other guys, and he smiles in turn, and that strikes me a lot. I let him do whatever he likes better, I want him to feel completely comfortable. There are very few words between us. He expects me to never tell him no, but he also adjusts to me and asks me only for things that are good for me too. It is he who leads the sexual game but he does it with respect, with delicacy. These things seem silly but qualify the person. I would like the relationship with this guy, whom I think about with tenderness quite often, to become I don’t say stable but just a little more stable and frequent. Deep down, I know that it won’t happen. It would be enough for me to go on like this, maybe seeing each other once a month or every two months, and instead I’m afraid of losing him permanently. I would like to have a place in his life, the place he wants, as marginal as he wants, but I wish he wouldn’t forget me. I know he needs more and this is not a problem, or rather it wouldn’t be if he didn’t end up forgetting about me. Is it a fallback solution? Am I wasting my time on totally stupid fantasies? Maybe so, but in the end, this relationship has stood the test of time, it’s a light, fragile thing, apparently made of only sex, but perhaps not only. I don’t know what to think, Project, I haven’t looked for another guy, because he somehow exists in my life, he is not a meteor that explodes and disappears, you know that sooner or later you’ll see him again, or at least you hope it will be so. At the moment I don’t know if I will see him again but I know I would like it.

What do you think about Project?

p.s.: obviously do what you want with the email. I would like to know if any of the guys have had similar experiences.

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If you want, you can participate in the discussion on this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-guys-and-over-30-crisis

Wednesday, October 21, 2020

GAY GUYS LOOKING ONLY FOR SEX

 Hi Project,

I recently discovered Gay Project and in the panorama of gay content sites on the network it seems unique to me and if I had met it about ten years ago I think I would have avoided getting involved in many useless problems which, on the other hand, have conditioned me a lot. Reading the forum in the sex section and in the couples section, I found stories not far from experiences that I have also lived and this confirmed me in the idea of not being a rare exception. I’m 32 years old, luckily for me I can still undertake quite well the passage of time and I show less than my years. Currently, at least in a sense, I’m single, partly by choice and partly because my ex-boyfriends, let’s call them so, after a few months, get tired and needed something else. I understood this and didn’t even try to hold them back. I’ve lived a free life since I was twenty, I left home as soon as I could because I couldn’t stand the daily contact with my parents anymore and I needed to live my life. At the beginning I went through periods of strong disarray, bordering on depression, I thought that no one would ever fall in love with me and this seemed to me like a tragedy, today, objectively, at least looking from the outside, nothing has changed, it no longer seems to me like a tragedy and I stopped looking for a guy, at least in the sense that is usually given to this expression. I haven’t stopped looking for sex, because I think it’s impossible to stop, but I put aside the idea of making my sanity depend on a single guy, but by reading the following you will understand what I mean. 

Up to the age of 24-25 my couple experiences were devastating, perhaps also because I dreamed a lot and I felt very frustrated and disappointed, I had in my head several models and preconceptions that conditioned me. At the age of 25 I met a guy, whom I will call James here, who in a sense, little by little, made me change my way of thinking. The beginning, with him, was only physical. I was attracted to him and tried to repeat with him the same script I had used with the other guys: close couple, eternal love blah blah, but he didn’t let me do so from the first attempt. James was different from the other guys, he didn’t play a role, he was very disenchanted, a bit the opposite of me. He dismantled all my traditional vision of couple life setting right from the start and told me brutally, but seriously: “I like having sex with you, but I don’t know you, for the moment I like it but it’s just sex, I don’t know if I’ll fall in love with you, it could happen, but at the moment it isn’t.” For what I was then such a speech was destructive and I started to feel bad almost immediately, but I liked him a lot and I followed my sexual instinct, putting aside my emotional frustrations. 

In sex James was very direct, he didn’t say stupid things. It may have been just sex, as he used to say, but he liked me, he wanted me and I must say that I understood only with him what it means to make love with a guy. On a sexual level, things worked very well between us, the understanding was practically perfect, we used to think the same things and at the same moments. I have never had a guy interested in totally uninhibited sex and far from any acting like him, at least from that point of view I lacked nothing, but there was a but, he told me that in any case he felt free to go with other guys too and he really did, but they weren’t betrayals or things done in secret, he also used  to talk to me about his guys and I felt terrible. He once said to me: “I’m like that, if this doesn’t suit you, you are free to leave.” These expressions at first sounded aggressive, as if he wanted to control or dominate me, but then I realized that it wasn’t like that. He was looking for me a lot, he had the attitude of a seducer towards me, or at least it seemed so to me, he enhanced my sexual performances and this way he gratified me, but he always said that for him it was “only sex”, and I don’t hide from you that for this expression I hated him, even if hating James was practically impossible. He almost didn’t want me to fall in love with him sentimentally, sex didn’t frighten him but he couldn’t stand the entanglements that he considered sticky, he used to say that when you understand each other you don’t need words. He used to say “you understand each other”, not “you love each other” because he systematically avoided the affective plan. 

This expression: “it’s just sex” has been somehow my obsession for the past six years. But I have to be honest, told like this the story seems very reductive: he is the cynical and insensitive tyrant and I the victim subjugated by sex, but things were actually very different and much more complicated. There were a lot of cynical and overly rational attitudes on his part, but there were others as well that seemed to go in an entirely different direction. Despite his behaviors, he was not a sex hunter, he was free in his behavior, he had had many guys, he was a bit cynical in these things, that’s true, but he didn’t think only of himself, he wasn’t aggressive or vindictive, when we had some conflict he had no problem giving in first and sometimes he felt seriously hurt, but he would never try to hurt you, perhaps he may disappear, if he thinks he’s not welcome. He never tried to force anyone to do anything, he didn’t use emotional blackmail of any kind and above all, when he went away because he had met another guy, he didn’t disappear for too long periods and then, despite appearances, he was very vulnerable on the emotional level and perhaps his being cynical, at least in appearance, was a method of defense. 

Every time he entered a new story I used to feel terrible because I was terrified of losing him permanently, but things never went that way. Let’s say that some of his ex-boyfriends left the scene precisely because he considered them unreliable, with others he maintained non-superficial contacts. I want to specify that when I say that he considered certain guys untrustworthy I’m not referring to the fact that they only had sex with him or anything like that, these things were practically indifferent to him, for him the unreliability consisted in not speaking clearly, telling lies, having two faces, saying one thing and doing another. He just couldn’t stand these things and on the other hand he didn’t do them. With ex-boyfriends that he considered reliable people he also had sex episodically, always underlying that “it was just sex” but it seemed to me that a much more complex relationship was created with those guys, let’s say something like a true friendship even with a little sex .He behaved like that to me too. From him I learned the meaning of sexuality. 

At the beginning, when he said to me: “I’m with you only for sex”, I considered the expression in a reductive way, then I realized that saying “only for sex” was not actually an understatement. Sex for him was also, and I would say above all, a way to be accepted without preclusions.  I understood that sometimes he really needed to have sex with me, it was a very important end liberating form of communication. Sometimes after sex he would have moments of deep melancholy and he would cry in front of me, other times when we happened to meet, he seemed very cynical and aggressive but if he could live sex in a liberating way in the end he was better. 

As time went by, I understood more and more clearly that saying “it’s just sex” wasn’t an understatement at all. With the expression “only sex” he wanted to exclude all the ritualism, the sweet platitudes and the small hypocrisies of which are often studded the so-called love stories. The distinction between love and sex made no sense to him, for him sexual attraction was the trigger of a sexual story, precisely in the sense of “sexual story”, of course, but also of prudently affective story. In a sense, he overturned the common order of things: for many it starts with friendship and then ends with sex, for him it starts with sex and then it becomes possible to understand whether or not it is also possible to build a relationship of friendship. He often told me something that I struggled to understand and that is that at the basis of true friendship, that is, of trusting one another, there is always a strong mutual sexual attraction, which is a necessary condition, but obviously not sufficient, to build a friendship. For him, friendship was more than sex, or rather it was almost another step forward towards a more complete sexuality, a level no more sublimated but deeper, that is, with a deeper level of interpersonal communication. A friend to him was one he could trust 100% and that trust had to be mutual. He had no ritual friendships, he never remembered birthdays or anything like that, he never gave gifts, not to save that money he didn’t have anyway, but to avoid entering the dimension of the ritual, of what one does because it must be done. 

For him, a friend is someone who doesn’t say no, if you go to visit him because you need to have sex with him at one in the morning. This is sex, of course, but it is certainly not “just sex” in the reductive sense of the term. He also has another characteristic that I have always liked a lot and that gives a further meaning to his way of saying: “it’s just sex”. He connects sex “exclusively” to a dimension of instinctive attraction, sex for him mustn’t be polluted by anything else, i.e. it must be “just sex!” because “only sex” means real sex, not mixed with interests of any other kind, and ultimately real sex is the premise of serious friendship. He told me something else that at first irritated me a lot: “if someone doesn’t welcome you into his bed when you need it, he’s not a friend because for him rules matter more than you.” Today I’m starting to think he was right. 

Over time we see each other less and therefore we have less sex and now, in the virus period, we talk  from time to time on the phone, but not very often, when it happens, however, the phone calls are very long. He finally asks me if I got aroused and it actually happens every time. Lately he told me that he has many “friends”, but as for “true friends”, that is, those with whom he can speak freely, he has only three. A few years ago, this speech would have made me feel bad because I would have read it only as a clear sign that for him I was not the only one, neither as a friend nor as a sex partner, since, for him, friendship also includes sexual availability, but today this doesn’t really put me in crisis anymore. 

For more than a year now we have not seen each other “only” to have sex but “also” to talk and to talk in such a serious way that I have never found anything similar in different situations and with anyone else. At the beginning I used to feel a clear difference between his way of seeing sex and personal relationships and mine, then little by little the differences began to fade, little by little we built a common ground, yielding a little to each other’s principles. He is now much less cynical and is also starting to talk about sex as an expression of affectivity and I have ended up putting aside the idea of couple, not because I think there is something wrong, but because I don’t see it suitable for me, I mean for us, me and James. We have found our balance, which is not the classic balance of a couple, but it works between us. So I feel better, I feel much more at ease and somehow, I don’t know whether to say that I feel loved, but I certainly feel much more respected and understood. 

Lately it also happened to me to call him because I felt the need to have sex with him, he just told me: “I’ll wait for you, come as soon as you can.” It was only five words but it was easy to understand that James was glad that I had asked him it. I went up to his house, he let me in, he undressed, while I did the same, then he lay down on the bed and opened his arms and we hugged naked. I stayed with him all night. In the morning when I woke up I asked him: “Is it just sex?” He smiled at me and ruffled my hair. Please note, Project, this is not the beginning, of a perhaps late classic couple story, it is just “a moment” of our relationship, which must be taken for what it is. Saying this I realize that it is as if this time it is me the one who says that “it’s just sex”, even if it’s certainly not “just sex”. In reality I knew very well that after that episode I wouldn’t have seen him perhaps for four or six weeks in a row, I was aware of it and I didn’t want and shouldn’t delude myself. The relationship between James and me would certainly not have ended, and in fact it has not ended, but it would never have been a classic relationship. 

I asked myself several times, from a selfish point of view, if “for me” it would have been better to look for another guy or “also” for another guy. I don’t think that in general James would have considered it as a betrayal, he would probably have accepted it as the most normal thing in the world, because he too was used to do such things normally. The real problem would come with the other guy who would find himself involved in things other than the classic couple stories and feel betrayed. However, since I’ve known James, I’ve never fallen in love with other guys. Now he told me that he fell in love with another guy he likes a lot, and he’s devoting himself completely to this guy, but generally James’s stories don’t last long because guys want him all to themselves and don’t accept the fact that you can’t build relationships with him. 

For slightly different reasons, both James and I have difficulty building relationships with guys, their model of emotional life is different from ours, because they are used to saying one thing and living another. Those guys, when James tells them “it’s just sex”, they feel relieved at first, because they think “it’s just sex” for them too, but when they see James telling them he’s fallen in love with someone else, then they realize that for them it’s not really “just sex” and so they begin to feel terrible and to feel betrayed, because they are unable to put aside the idea of exclusivity in order not to lose James. They want to be with James but they think that the kind of relationship is worth more than the person: better a couple relationship with another than a different kind of relationship with him. I understand that you can be perplexed if you hear your partner saying that “it’s just sex” but to be with a guy because with him you can build the kind of relationship you want it means that in the end “it’s not even sex, but convenience and habit.” 

Sometimes I fear that James, despite everything he has said, might actually fall in love with another guy and end up accepting even a standard couple life with that guy. I can guarantee you that if that happens I’d be happy. At first it might be difficult to accept, but in the end I would be happy. I don’t know if in a similar situation he could forget me, frankly I don’t think so. Perhaps the episodic sexual contacts between us, which characterized our relationship, would end completely, but we would still love each other even so, and at least he would have no reason to repeat that “it’s just sex”.

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I receive the following email at 2.25 am on September 1st 2020, with a request for publication. 

Hello Project, I’m the James mentioned in the post “Gay Guys Looking For Sex”. Here I will call Paul the author of that post, who is one of my closest friends. To some this expression may seem trivial and stupid but for me it is not at all. Paul loved me for who I was, he never frowned like so many guys from good families who were looking for a mate they could take home to have their parents’ blessing. If Paul had taken me to his parents I think they would have kicked me if they knew who I was. Paul didn’t ask questions, he didn’t demand conditions of any kind, he was patient, he never posed as a teacher, he was a true friend, and I think few people know what this expression means. There are many aspects of me much worse than what Paul told in the post, indeed, he almost sanctified me, but he also accepted the worst in me, he didn’t run away like so many others. Now I feel much less as a drifter than before, but not because I found eternal love but because I learned a lot from Paul and still have a lot to learn. I have other friends I trust, but with him it’s different, he’s an exceptional man and he knows I really think so. I never understood what he could find in me, because someone like him could have found guys a hundred times better than me, and he had the opportunities to do it but he really cared about me. He had a vision of sex very far from mine but he didn’t run away, he didn’t get scared. He talked about the night he came to me, and said he called me to be with me, but he didn’t say that he did it mainly because we had talked on the phone in the afternoon and he had understood that I was really in a bad situation. I had longed him to come and he called me and came to me and came here so as not to leave me alone with my paranoia, for me seeing him was like seeing the light again. He said that as soon as he arrived we immediately went to bed together but it didn’t happen at all like that, I was confused and he made me a cup of tea, then he cleaned the kitchen and made me some dinner that he had brought from home, because I hadn’t eaten for two days, then he sat next to me and held my hand until I was better, then we also made love but by now dawn was breaking. I have learned to live or rather I’m learning to live a normal life and I thought that I would never succeed, and instead I’m succeeding because there is Paul. I don’t know if he will ever be my boyfriend, these categories seem absurd to me, I owe him a lot and I’m not ashamed to say it. I’m changing my life because Paul didn’t abandon me when anyone else would. I don’t know if I’m in love with him, in the end in love is a word like any other. I just want to tell him that he was the one who made me realize that it’s not just sex. He knows what is between us and on the other hand I think it is impossible to explain it in words.

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If you want, you can participate in the discussion on this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-guys-looking-only-for-sex

STORY OF A GAY AND A TRANS

 Hi Project, I’m a 39 years old gay, I can’t say gay boy because I’m not a boy anymore and I don’t feel like a boy. I have had my life and my stories but it’s not about me that I want to talk to you. Last night (the night between August 23th and 24th) surfing TV channels as I often do, I ended up on “Rai Tre” (a well-known channel in Italy), and I saw a broadcast about the “transition-path”, that is, about transgender people and transitions MtF and FtM. The broadcast was beautiful, honest, real, and for me it was shocking because it made come forcefully up to the surface of my consciousness the story I lived with a trans who was a guy at first. Obviously, given the need to respect privacy on such sensitive issues, I will not be able to go into details, but such memories are not only unforgettable but remain as a yardstick for many other things. I’ll avoid by necessity even too punctual definitions of times and circumstances. In a certain year, when I was no longer very young and I was single again after living together for a few years with a guy, I meet for work reasons a very young boy who had just come out of the school. I think he was more or less 19 years old. He’s a nice guy, I’ll call him Norbert. I only look at him because he is a handsome boy but he is completely outside my horizons, too young and then, frankly I still had to lick the wounds of my just finished coexistence. A couple of months go by and since the work reasons remain, I have the opportunity to meet Norbert several times, even three or four times a week. In short, a certain sympathy is created between us. Norbert is smart, reliable, he knows his work, he is almost amazed that I treat him with respect, as the days go by Norbert tends to talk more with me and even, sometimes, to smile, but very rarely. 

We start becoming friends, and he starts to trust me, and somehow I’m proud of it. I’m starting to think he’s a gay guy who has fallen in love with me, his way of doing makes me think so. I begin to wonder what to do, Norbert is a handsome guy but frankly he doesn’t tempt me, I think that with him I could never build anything concrete, at least because of the age difference, and so I decide that I have to keep him at a distance and that I have to cool his enthusiasm above all for his good because otherwise he could be heavily disappointed. I try to distance myself, but he chases me and doesn’t allow me to keep my distance. 
One day he asks me to drive him to a nearby town, and everything that needs to happen happens in the car, but not what I expected. He tells me to park the car in a lay-by and asks me out of the blue: “Are you gay?” I feel terribly embarrassed and I don’t answer, he continues: “I understood it immediately … so why are you running away?” I try to anticipate him and to prevent him from going further: “Because you are too young and furthermore I already have a partner (but in reality I didn’t have one).” He replies in a way that displaces me: “For me if you have a partner it makes no difference!” I ask him: “What do you mean?” He tells me: “I like you but in a way you can’t understand.” I look at him puzzled and he tells me: “I fell in love with you because I feel like a woman and you are the only person who treated me with respect, I don’t think a gay can fall in love with a woman in a man’s body, it wouldn’t work. Don’t be afraid, I know it.” I feel dizzy, I don’t know how to react, he realizes it and tells me: “I look like a guy but I’m a girl and I want to be a girl. You can’t imagine what I went through in school and also in my family.” 
The first impetus I had was to run away because I didn’t want to get involved in too complicated things that I didn’t know anything about, and then I didn’t want to have any contact with Norbert’s family, because I didn’t know what they would think of me. Norbert was of age but the complications were very probable and anyway unpredictable. 
At one point he says to me: “Don’t call me Norbert, call me Magda, because I want to be called so.” For me, calling him Magda was very difficult but with some effort I succeeded. When I got home my brain was boiling, I had left home in the belief that Norbert had fallen in love with me and I returned home with the certainty that Norbert was actually Magda and that she wanted me to help her begin the transition path, all this was upsetting and I was not prepared to face such situations. I was afraid of ending up crushed by too big responsibilities and completely losing my autonomy. I told myself that I absolutely had to get out of this whole thing, but then I didn’t have the needed courage. Magda understood my fears and tried not to feed them, she was present in my life and knew what she wanted from me but she was not an obsessive presence, she had a sense of limit. I expected her to let off steam to me by telling me about her life but she didn’t, or, if she did, she did it in a very limited way. She was looking for true solidarity not for a shoulder to cry on. We talked a lot but always in a very controlled and almost detached way, she didn’t want to scare me, but even from this titanic effort of self-control I could understand the ocean of pain that she carried inside. 
At work he continued to be Norbert, but when I accompanied her home Norbert was Magda, as the days went by our relationship, for me, ceased to be a concern and I began to wonder what I could concretely do to allow Magda to realize her dream. I tried to read up on it, I spent whole nights on the internet looking for sites that talked seriously about these things to feel less inadequate but then I realized that Magda knew a hundred times more than me about the problem and that therefore I certainly couldn’t help her that way. We talked a lot especially about her relationship with her parents. Her problem was to have the support of her parents. The parents thought she was actually a gay guy, but anyway they weren’t able to accept neither such a situation. Making them accept that their son actually felt like a girl and wanted to follow the transition path seemed to me absolutely impossible, I told it Magda clearly even though I knew this could be disheartening for her. Magda, however, was not of the same opinion and told me: “I’m preparing the ground, however, when the time comes, you will have to do your part.” 
In practice, in the previous days she had begun to mention the matter to her parents, who were however very perplexed and felt completely inadequate. She told me that she had told her parents about me, which made me very alarmed, and added that she had also told them that I was gay and that I could explain a lot of things to them. In practice, the parents were convinced that Magda was not a trans with the so-called gender dysphoria but a gay guy with too feminized internalized attitudes and had come to accept the idea that Magda could fall in love with a guy. She had tried to explain to her parents that the matter was completely different but they thought that meeting a “real” gay would allow Magda to understand that she too was “just” a gay guy. 
After not many days, Magda told me it was my time and that her parents were waiting for me in the afternoon. I didn’t have the courage to back down and went to Magda’s parents, who welcomed me with respect but also with suspicion. The first moments were of extreme embarrassment, I had to explain that I was really gay, that I had lived with a man for years, this to make them understand that I was a “real” gay, then I told how I had met Magda, but I didn’t know how to go on, because the atmosphere was freezing. Magda realized that the situation was taking a bad turn and asked her parents to express their doubts saying that I would answer all their questions. The parents made a huge effort and slowly we got to the heart of the matter. The father began with these words: “Norbert trusts you a lot and considers you a very serious friend and was very keen for us to meet in person, now we are here and we must try to understand each other, because we care a lot about our son.” Then, the four of us have been talking until midnight. 
The parents insisted that Norbert was just a gay guy maybe a little effeminate, and making them understand that Norbert was not at all effeminate and not at all gay was really very difficult, because their interpretation of things put them away from the idea of the concrete physical transition from male to female, which was the thing that scared them the most. They started from the idea that since Norbert had never brought home a girl and had never talked about girls he could be interested in guys and this for them meant that Norbert was gay. I tried to make them understand that a gay is a guy who feels 100% masculine who falls in love with another guy because he sees him as 100% masculine, while a trans falls in love with a guy because he/she feels like a woman and  falls in love with a man the way women fall in love with men and the two things are very different. Understanding these concepts was very difficult for them. They thought that a gay falls in love with a guy because he doesn’t feel up to being with a woman and that he sees his partner as a woman, that in a gay couple there is a gay-male and a gay-female and the like and they thought that an effeminate guy was very interesting to a gay because he was more feminine. And then they had a very strange concept of effeminacy, for them effeminacy was not linked to external aspects but to the intimate feeling of having a distinctly feminine personality, which is why they considered Norbert effeminate, even if he wasn’t at all. 
Eventually I told her parents that if they had called their daughter Magda instead of Norbert, she would have been happy. Her mother called her Magda and hugged her. The father said. “It will take me a while but I will get used to it.” Magda took me back to my car and was radiant, she was happy with me and how I had behaved and above all with the reactions of her parents who seemed to be possibilist. I swear to you, Project, that I would never have imagined an afternoon like that, but after that afternoon there were many others not very different. Magda knew how to move and her parents were basically good people whose life had been upset by things they weren’t in the least prepared for, they wanted Magda’s good but they didn’t understand how, in reality, this good could materialize, however, getting the parents to accept the idea of the physical transition was a much more difficult undertaking than expected. 
They feared that there could be serious health consequences for Magda, they too had begun to search for information but were disoriented. They accepted Magda’s trans feelings but only on a psychological level, for them hormonal therapies and surgeries were something inconceivable, almost a way of rebelling against God’s will. They had no religious prejudices but were afraid of pushing Magda towards a choice she might have regretted later. They were the same perplexities that I also had, but Magda was very determined and basically the transition path would be followed by experienced people and this comforted me. In the end, however, her parents reluctantly accepted the prospect of the physical transition as well. Magda was happy, because at least her parents had let her choose freely and hadn’t imposed anything on her.
Magda began her transition path which, however, let’s say unexpectedly both for me and her parents, ended in an early psychological phase, in other words before hormonal therapies and before surgery. Magda spoke long with an endocrinologist who clarified to her that she would have to continue taking estrogen for life and that ultimately her secondary sexual characteristics would have changed but she would not have lost the male genetic characteristic and would not have acquired the female one. The psychologist insisted that Magda’s choice to carry out the transition had be absolutely free and aware and that if she had any doubts, even small ones, she would do well to take her time to think about them very seriously. So there was a postponement and after three months Magda made the decision not to proceed further. In reality Magda felt she was in a female identity but somehow imperfect and completed by a residue of male identity, which was not completely rejected. 
Not carrying on the transition was a choice that perhaps could also have been inspired by Magda’s parents, this occurred to me many times, but I realized that she was calm and that the fact of not proceeding with the transition was ultimately her choice, because individual paths rarely follow strictly the theoretical standard. The suspension of the transition was followed by a period of psychological support therapy with a very competent doctor and, essentially, there were no problems. However, a profound melancholy remained, which was what psychotherapy was focused on: it was the fear of loneliness, the fear of never finding a partner. With the complete physical transition, Magda would have had a feminine aspect and “maybe” she could have found a guy but she couldn’t have children anyway and that would have been a huge conditioning impossible to overcome.
Without the physical transition, Magda-Norbert would have been interesting only for gays but also with gays in the long run, very serious problems would have arisen and anyway Magda’s dream would have been to find a guy who fell in love with her “as a woman”. Without the physical transition, Norbert remained Norbert in the workplace. My friends, who knew about me, thought Norbert was my boyfriend and didn’t believe me when I told them he wasn’t, because Norbert, or rather Magda, was somehow “in a very emotional way” my girlfriend. Our story went on for another two years, then Magda, incredible to say, found a straight man who fell in love with her and who had enormous courage because Magda was apparently a guy in all respects. I too met Magda’s boyfriend and he made a great impression on me. She thought that if she made the transition she could also legally marry that guy; at that time there were still no civil unions in Italy, then when it became legally possible, they made a civil union that also appeared in some newspapers as a “gay civil union” even if of a gay union there was only the appearance.
Then they went to live in Milan and now we only talk for Christmas, Easter and birthdays. Clearly Magda continues to work as Norbert but all in all I think she has found at least a relative tranquility, she has a boyfriend who loves her. When they did the civil union they left for a kind of honeymoon and came to see me, Magda was happy, I could see it from the smile.
I don’t think many gays have lived a similar story, generally the trans topic is a taboo even for gays. Last night’s broadcast led me to think that the more serious you talk about these things the more you improve the level of everyone’s life.
Freely do whatever you want with the email.An affectionate greeting.Daniel (Sorry, it’s not my real name)

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If you want, you can participate in the discussion on this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-story-of-a-gay-and-a-trans

Friday, October 2, 2020

MEMORIES OF A GAY COUPLE

 Hi Project,

my name is Mario, I’m a 74-year-old Roman who saw his partner die, after trying to do everything to save him, but the doctors and himself were aware of how it would end. It was a very short thing, lasting 31 days in all. He tried to tell me until the end that he loved me and that he was happy to have been with me. He was five years younger than me and I could never have imagined what was about to happened. Almost eight months have passed now, and I have overcome the anxieties of the first moments that made me cry alone without consolation. Now I have his photos, memories and he continues to live inside me. We lived together for almost 40 years and in this we were lucky, because 40 years ago the idea of living together for two men was a utopia and nothing else, but for us it has become reality. 

When we met I was 33 and he was 28, we both were already working. He was a young engineer and I was a slightly older English teacher. At the time, I took it for granted that I would never have a partner and was still living in my parents’ home. I had never gotten along with my parents, who still didn’t know about my homosexuality (and it never occurred to me to think about opening up to them). We didn’t get along especially for political reasons, my mother was a Christian Democrat also and above all because she didn’t read the newspapers and didn’t understand anything about politics, my father was still living in the myth of the “twenty years” (the fascist period) and for him the parties of the left were like smoke in the eyes. 

We had begun to feel something similar to a reciprocal repulsion the year before, at the time of the kidnapping and murder of Moro [Aldo Moro, president of the Christian Democrat Party, killed by Red Brigades]. On the one hand my father hated the Red Brigades but on the other he also hated Moro for his openness to the Communist Party, and towards Moro he used derogatory expressions of the worst kind. My mother used to tell me that the only thing that could be done was to pray and in any case she wouldn’t be able to understand the double game of so many Christian Democrats who couldn’t stand Moro and supported the line of firmness. On the contrary, I had always liked Moro a lot, I had always thought he was an honest man who had not chosen to be a politician for personal interest. And so Moro’s story was also the collapse of my family’s balance. My parents began to consider me a communist by now irrecoverable to their classic petty bourgeois common sense or it should be better to call it opportunism. In practice, I too, although I cannot say that I had begun to hate my father, certainly I had come to the conclusion that there would never be any possible serious conversation between us and on the basis of this, reacting out of rage and irrational impetus, I made a  request for a transfer to go to teach in another province and said nothing at home. Such a behavior would have seemed out of mind to my parents but it seemed somehow necessary and freeing to me. 

Just after having  submitted the application, I regretted having sent it, anyhow I couldn’t go back, but the possibility that my transfer application was accepted was rather remote and this was enough for me to keep calm. Contrary to my hopes and expectations, at the end of the summer of ’78 I was informed that I had been transferred to a very distant province (Turin). It was very difficult for me to tell my parents, especially since I hadn’t told them that I had asked for a transfer. They took it as a real betrayal, a sudden and premeditated stab inflicted to my father and mother. My father was really disgusted by me, he said that he had fed a snake in his bosom, my mother tried to keep him good, but if she hadn’t been there, I would have really come to blows with my father. 

I left home when my father was at work, breaking away from my mother’s hugs and promising that I wouldn’t disappear and that I would send her my new address as soon as possible. There were about 40 days before the beginning of the school year and I stayed in a hotel in Turin until I found a mini-apartment not very far from the school. It was at school that I met Carlo. The Province and the Education Superintendent had plans to build new school buildings and the company where Carlo worked had won a contract, or something similar, and it was decided that a series of meetings should be held at my school, with the planners, with some officials of the Province and of the Superintendency and with some principals. My principal told me that I would be part of the group, which was a show of confidence that I couldn’t resist anyway. 

The first meeting was just for presentation, we were 14 people, and all they did was establish a calendar for the following technical meetings. I thought that all the meetings would be rituals like the first one but it wasn’t so. In the first meeting, however, I immediately noticed Eng. Carlo B., who seemed to me a really nice guy, but nothing more. 

In the second meeting very animated discussions took place, Eng. Carlo B. started unrolling projects and tried to explain the technical problems but then began the brawl of the buts, of the but instead, of the could and should, etc. etc.. It was past 10pm, and the meeting that had begun at 4pm was going on and showed no sign of moving towards its conclusion. Carlo looked at his clock every five minutes, then, after 11.00 pm, he stopped looking at his clock. The meeting ended at 11.30pm. They all left because they had their cars parked in the yard. There I realized that Carlo had no car and I told him. “Can I accompany you somewhere?” and he told me that he would spend the night in the hotel and that he would leave by train the next morning, because by now there were no more trains useful for him, and it was there that I almost instinctively played my cards: “If you want to go to the hotel, I’ll take you downtown, but if it’s okay for you, you could sleep at my house too, it’s small but it’s just a few minutes from here, then I’ll take you to the station tomorrow morning before going at school.” He didn’t let me add a single word, and just said to me:” But do you think it can really be done? ” I replied: “Sure!” He said to me: “It things are so, well, thank you!” Our story began like this. 

It was December, it was freezing cold, but I left my bed and my bed duvet to him and went to sleep on the sofa. In the morning we had breakfast together, then I accompanied him to the station, we were both visibly happy to have broken the ice. He left me the phone number of his parents’ house, I took it but told him I didn’t have a phone but perhaps I could call him with a payphone. At school the principal was thrilled with me because I hadn’t left him alone at the planning meeting and he began to treat me with a special eye. The next technical group meeting was scheduled in a month, I just had to wait, but the wait would have been too long, after not even a week I thought about calling Carlo on the phone, I first prepared all the speech to give, a very official speech if the parents had answered and a very different and very friendly speech if Carlo had answered. 

I decided that the ideal time to call would be around 20.00, at 20.00 sharp I called and told his mother that I was the prof. Mario C. of the Institute’s technical coordination group …, the lady replied that if I left my number her son would call me back as soon as he returned from work, it seemed ugly to answer that I didn’t have a phone and I simply told her to notify the Engineer that I would call him back the next day but the next morning it was he who called me back to school, because perhaps he thought there were really problems related to the coordination group. The janitor came to my classroom to tell me that I had to go up to the offices because there was a phone call for me in the secretary. As soon as I heard his voice the phone I immediately understood that the reason wasn’t certainly the anxiety due to the coordination group. There were people nearby and obviously I couldn’t speak too friendly. I told him: “Good morning Engineer!” and he replied: “Hi Mario!” I went on using a very polite and almost ceremonial language and he replied: “This morning I’m in Turin and I finish at 11.00, would you like to have lunch with me?” I replied: “Look, it was just what I would have suggested, I believe that the project can start much better this way!” Three hours later we were having lunch together! 

We were friends now. It was evident that there was a mutual interest but on both sides the prudence was maximum, we strictly avoided too personal arguments, we talked about our experiences of study and work, at first we didn’t talk about politics, I didn’t know how to frame him even from that point of view, then slowly I began to notice on his face some expression of disappointment those rare times that we spoke of Christian Democracy, or at least of certain Christian Democrat politicians, of others, however, he had great esteem. Once we also talked about Moro and it was evident that the kidnapping and murder of Moro had upset him, even if he was not well informed about the facts. Slowly we began to talk about daily politics and I almost always found myself in agreement with him. He spoke of socialism with some enthusiasm, but not of Craxi’s socialism, but of Nenni’s socialism. 

We also discussed literature, once he told me about a novel by Pavese, “The house in the hills”, a novel that I didn’t know, but rather than talking about partisans and Germans, he focused on the relationship between Corrado, the protagonist, a very disenchanted professor coming from Turin, and Dino, a very young guy, whom Corrado suspects is his son. The relationship between the alleged father and the alleged son, in the book, is hinted at, more than clarified. Corrado sees himself in the young guy, who will eventually join the partisans, while his father will not be capable of anything like this and will close himself in his inner world made of awareness and above all renunciations. In the novel, which I then read almost immediately, it also speaks of Corrado’s relationship with Dino’s mother and of two other women who host Corrado, but obviously this was not what struck Carlo. Then once we also talked about Bassani and the “Finzi-Contini Garden”, where there is also a hint linked to homosexuality. Carlo was well acquainted with the book, evidently he had read it several times but never mentioned homosexual references. 

After that first lunch together in Turin we got into the habit of meeting every Sunday, he always came to me by train and left with the last useful train at 11.00 pm. We met in the morning around nine and spent the whole day together, obviously we never talked about girls, and this led us to hope, but the doubts remained and were very strong. As Christmas was approaching, I asked him what he would do for Christmas and he simply told me that he would be at home with his parents because he was an only child and had only his parents. From there we started talking about our family relationships. His parents had spent every penny to make him study and he, once he became an engineer, somehow felt he had to repay them, he had to at least devote his time to his parents and somehow had to compensate them for everything they were deprived of to make him study, also for this reason he worked from morning to evening and furthermore had a very special emotional relationship with his parents. His parents weren’t old, but it was a bit like he considered himself the father of those he called “my two old folks”. All this seemed very strange to me. 

I told him about the quarrels with my father for political reasons and the final ruin of my family following my transfer to Turin, requested without saying anything to my parents. But Carlo surprised me with his answer: “If that was the situation, you did very well to leave! For me it’s different, my parents are very simple people but they taught me the true values of life.” Little by little we were getting closer to more personal confidences, obviously neither of us was talking about girls. We went on like this for almost six months, like good friends. I was in doubt whether to install the phone or not, with the phone I could call him, but in the end he would always have talked from home, so I didn’t install the phone, but we continued to meet on Sunday, as had become tradition. We never gave ourselves gifts of any kind, partly out of superstition because we wanted everything between us to be free and without obligations. 

Then something unexpected happened, even if “somehow” expected. The 1st of June 1980 was Sunday and the 2nd was the feast of the Republic and therefore both he and I had two free days in a row, I proposed to him to stay and sleep with me and he accepted. I asked him how his parents would take it and he answered in an enigmatic way that they would be happy, I tried to deepen the discussion and he told me that his parents knew about our friendship, because he had talked about it and they were happy, then he added : “On the other hand, they never expected me to take a girl home.” I pretended not to have understood and he said to me: “Come on, you understood very well!” I immediately gave up to acting and pretending, and told him: “So they know …”, he replied: “Sure, I told them … but they don’t know who you are, if they knew you I think they would be very happy.” By now we were speaking clearly. 

He told me how he decided to talk to his parents. At the time of the university he was he was in Turin, retired in a room alone, and his  parents, those rare times they saw him, were very worried that he wouldn’t find a girl or at least a female company. Because they thought that a girl could make him feel better, and therefore they insisted that he had to “feel free” and it was from there that Carlo’s whole speech started. His parents listened very carefully but they didn’t think they already knew what Carlo was talking about, they trusted him and wanted him to make them understand what it meant to be homosexual. He just said it’s exactly like when you fall in love with a girl, only instead of a girl it’s a guy, but the feelings are the same. 

Then he said to me: “You won’t believe me, but nothing has changed between me and my parents, my father has never been very expansive even before, but afterwards, when I came home, I felt much more pampered than before. I had the distinct feeling that my parents trusted me so much that they thought I would never do anything wrong or bad, the only thing they repeated to me was: ‘what is good for you is good for us!’ ” The night between 1st and 2nd June we didn’t sleep but we told each other about our lives. Project, I think you can understand how liberating it was for us to understand that we had found another homosexual guy and that something nice was being built with that guy. 

Neither he nor I had had the slightest experience of these things, I don’t talk about sex, which was all in the realm of fantasy, but precisely on the affective side. Shortly before taking the train back on the evening of June 2, he asked me: “Would you like to meet my parents?” The request was unsettling for someone like me but I said yes and as he got on the train he told me: “So next Sunday you come to me!” I said yes, without even understanding the significance of such a thing. The following Sunday I took the train and at 9.00 I was with him, very embarrassed. He told me to take it easy and we went up to his house. His parents were more embarrassed than me and we made very few speeches. They offered me some traditional artisanal macaroons and told me that lunch was ready and that they would go to the house of one of Carlo’s aunts. The father concluded: “We don’t want to embarrass you and in any case we thank you so much for having accepted our invitation.“ They greeted us a little awkwardly and left. I thought they were upset, but Carlo said to me: “Don’t worry, they trust you too! My father is very shy, but I know him well! ” 

Carlo took me around the valley, we walked a lot in the woods between ups and downs, he was happy and so was I, even though I thought I could never introduce Carlo to my father. Then, over time, we even got to have a little sex, but I won’t tell you about because it is part of my and Carlo’s private life and for me it is something sacred. Carlo worked in Turin but used to take the train every day so as not to leave his parents alone, well, an incredible thing happened, one day we went to the home of Carlo’s parents and his father told us: “My wife and I don’t are still old and we can also be alone, but why don’t you take an apartment together in Turin?” At the time it was not an easy thing at all because of demographic problems, that is, problems of cohabiting nucleus, etc. etc., the idea was very interesting but the doubts were many. Now I know we have been together all our life long, but at that time I didn’t know how it was going to end. In short, we came to the conclusion of buying two apartments on the top floor of a building, facing each other. He was a civil engineer and was able to choose the best. The condition was that the apartments were two and facing each other. 

One evening he arrived at my house all out of breath and showed me what seemed like an excellent opportunity. He explained to me about the exposure, the thermal insulation, because we would be on the top floor, he told me about transports, those that were already there and those that perhaps would be activated later. At that time there was still no talk of the subway in Turin, but Carlo looked far away and following the urban development he expected that sooner or later a subway line would also pass through those parts, what then really happened but in years very close to us. The two apartments were not identical but they were both two rooms and the price was very similar. The next day (Sunday) we went to see them from the outside, he had already been there and had visited everything from the inside and since he was a professional and also understood the financial aspects he had seen that to buy the apartments we could also take on a share of the mortgage taken out by the builder in 1972 with the bank at a fixed rate of 4.8%, while in 1980 the mortgages had passed over 21%. Interest rates were expected to drop in the long run and Carlo insisted that we had to repay the mortgage within 10 years and no more. We would have finished paying very soon but it was at the limit of possible. Carlo used to say: “If there is a need, my parents come to stay with us and their house is rented or, at worst, sold. The appearance of the building was very dignified and Carlo assured me that the structure was modernly built following all the rules of the art. On Monday morning he went to the sales office and gave the down payment for his apartment, fixing the option of taking over the old mortgage. When he went out I went in immediately after, they showed me the apartment and it was really very nice and above all bright and with a splendid view. They told me that if I wanted I could have thought about it but I knew what I had to do and I too paid my deposit by making the compromise exactly according to what Carlo had suggested. He was waiting for me outside and we went to lunch together, by now we had our own houses, with 4 bedrooms and two bathrooms, divided in two, but over time we had already planned that Carlo and I would stay in my house and the other house would host his parents if needed. 

We worked like crazy to pay for the two houses within ten years: he was awake doing calculations and drawing until late at night, in my apartment I was giving private lessons as much as I could. It was very difficult at first, but with the help of his parents we made it. Then our economic conditions improved and in 1990 we finished paying for the houses and furnished them in a less basic way. Before he only had furniture in the study where he worked and sometimes received people, but the other room was practically without furniture and the kitchen as well. In my house only the room where I used to give private lessons was furnished. The owners of the other apartments of the building didn’t consider us as a couple also because they saw very little of us, we were on the top floor, we never went to condominium meetings and gave the proxies to different people. When we happened to meet on the stairs we greeted each other like two complete strangers living in the same building, it was a ritual that may seem stupid but it served not to arouse curiosity. 

In 1990 he was 39 and I was 44, we were no longer young. That same year Carlo’s mother got sick and came to stay with her husband at Carlo’s house, while Carlo stayed at my house. We assisted Carlo’s mother until the end in ’93. The father suffered terribly from the trauma of widowhood, then he recovered, we spent a few good years together and then it also happened to him in ’99 for a lung disease that took him away. Carlo was then 48 years old and I was 53, we were now mature men, with economic and job security and above all with emotional security. Nobody knew about us but we had our real world and we lacked nothing, we didn’t care about the others. 

And here there was another sudden turning point, my mother calls me and tells me that my father is sick, it was the height of summer and Carlo and I had planned a wandering holiday together, I ask Carlo what I have to do and he replies without hesitation: “Go pack your bags and we’ll leave immediately!“ We traveled all night and the next morning we were in the hospital in front of my father’s room. Before entering we asked the doctor who reassured us, then we went to him together and I said to him: “Dad I came here to take you to my house because there you can be followed better.” And he said to me: “What about your mother?” when I told him: “She’s coming too!” he calmed down, then he looked at Carlo and said to me: “Who is that gentleman?” I replied: “That’s my partner …” I was afraid that this thing could make him feel bad but nothing of the kind happened and my father said: “And what does he say if we come to stay with you?” I shook my father’s hand and told him: “He says you have to come!” My mother was almost incredulous, then she started talking to Carlo. 

Eight days later my father was discharged from the hospital and we began the long journey to Turin. We stopped every now and then to let Dad rest because it was also very hot. Late in the evening, just before midnight, we arrived home in Turin. My father hadn’t yet realized that the two houses were separate, when he realized that he would have been alone with his wife in an apartment with his son on the same landing he calmed down. Carlo prepared the room for my father and my mother, then said goodbye and went to the other apartment to leave me alone with my parents. My father told me: “But he is a good man! He also took charge of us and he has also his parents to take care of … ” I told him that he no longer had his parents and that his parents had lived with us until the end, then my father stared at me and said: “Then you too are a good man! And I was a fool who didn’t understand it before. ” Dad’s health improved, he sat on the terrace looking at the mountains, I felt him calm, he often talked to Carlo, admired him, and used to say some very nice things about him, my mother was serene, did some cooking and saw the family reunited as she would never have imagined, she passed away in 2011 and then my father in 2012, when I was 68. 

Since then, Carlo and I have been truly alone, we were now old men but we thought that we could enjoy another piece of life together and instead the Lord didn’t want it and we went on being together for eight years only. Now my world is really over, I’m the last of the row, and I have no heirs left: I don’t know how long I will live and if there will be someone next to me when my time will come, but I lived my life, I was very lucky and I’m fully aware of it. Meeting Carlo changed my life. The idea of separating never crossed our minds. Without him I would have been an absolute nothing, I would have felt frustrated, I wouldn’t have recovered the relationship with my father and I would never have had a true love life. I would like to tell the guys who will read this story that at the beginning no one ever knows how things will go, I at twenty took it for granted that I would always be alone but it didn’t happen like that at all. I feel like an old man because I’m old but I have lived the life I wanted and with the person I wanted. There have been many problems but we have walked the road together and when I think of Carlo I know that in some way he is with me and will be with me until we will rejoin in heaven.

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If you want, you can participate in the discussion on this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-memories-of-a-gay-couple